New development thread: Sigberg Audio SBS Generation 2

[kharan]

It's one speaker and one sub. This picture is from last time I measured, but basically like this, on the "floor" (metal grid) next to the speaker. A bit challenging to dial in the sub as it has zero reinforcement from anything, as it's essentially floating in the middle of the room, no walls and no floor.

View attachment 514824

This makes sense, I too often tend to pluralize the word speaker by habit, so it extended to subs. I don't know how I made the mistake but I did make it.

 

[SigbergAudio]

..so that marks the finalization of the SBS G2 project. We will now start shipping orders, and the first to officially receive an SBS 1.5 upgrade is a Swede who is driving over here tomorrow to get his current SBS.1 upgraded with new drivers and new tuning.

Very happy with the result! These showcase so much of the sonic qualities from their more expensive cousins, and also play so loud it's hard to believe all that sound is coming from such small boxes.

 

[ragwo]

SBS 1.5 with it's bigger sibling, Manta.

Thank you for an excellent upgrade of the already splendid SBS.1!

 

[SigbergAudio]

Unboxing video of the G2 + two Inkognitos at a studio in Sweden:

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Another Sigberg Audio system has landed at Rhubarb Park. After working with two Sigberg Audio setups for a while, the conclusion was simple:
We want them in every room. So now Studio Småstad is equipped with an SBS Gen 2 system and two Inkognito subwoofers. That means Rhubarb Park now has three Sigberg Audio setups on site:

Manta with two 10D subs
SBS Gen 1 with Inkognito sub
SBS Gen 2 with two Inkognito subs

We’re slowly becoming a Sigberg Audio hub in Sweden, and honestly, we can’t get enough.

Mixing on these speakers almost feels like cheating. Everything translates. The low end makes sense. Decisions come faster. And suddenly you find yourself thinking:

“Wait… is the mix already done?”

Anton and Noah have already started working on the new system in Studio Småstad and are having the exact same experience: better, faster and more accurate mixes. Huge thanks to Sigberg Audio and Thorbjørn for the collaboration, and for creating what has become the most important tools in our studios.

 

[SigbergAudio]

Soundstage Networks! visited one of our reference studios last fall, actually before the SBS G2 was officially released. So they got a sneak peek, but the video wasn't published until now. Anyway, here it is!

The video shows both the SBS and the Manta in the studio, and also me explaining a bit about the SBS G2.

 

[David_M]

Wait... you have a studio? What for? Do you record and produce music in addition to designing speakers?

Also, if your current and newer-generation speakers use Purifi drivers, do you think their performance would be degraded/neutral/improved compared to your current offerings? I'm trying to determine whether Purifi's claims of lowest driver distortion and superb horizontal-axis performance are true and more or less unique to them, or just marketing hype.

 

[SigbergAudio]

Wait... you have a studio? What for? Do you record and produce music in addition to designing speakers?

Also, if your current and newer-generation speakers use Purifi drivers, do you think their performance would be degraded/neutral/improved compared to your current offerings? I'm trying to determine whether Purifi's claims of lowest driver distortion and superb horizontal-axis performance are true and more or less unique to them, or just marketing hype.

It's not my studio, we have one large reference studio in Norway (they have Sigberg Audio systems in two studios), and one large reference studio in Sweden (they have Sigberg Audio in four studios). So we can use them for demos, auditions and things like this video.

Purifi:
I don't think their claims are marketing hype, but the question becomes how much better, and how audible is it, and at what cost (Purifi is pretty expensive). They also don't offer every driver type on the planet, so it also has to match the needs of the products.

They currently do not offer coaxial drivers, so I couldn't use them there.
They do not offer 12" subwoofer drivers, so it couldn't be used in the Inkognito.
They do offer a 10" subwoofer ("extended woofer") driver, but based on simulations it wouldn't improve the performance meaningfully over the current Scan-Speak driver.
The same goes for their 8" extended woofer, it would be slightly better probably for the bass drivers in the Saranna, but at a way higher cost.

etc.. Changing driver manufacturers on an existing product of course also requires adjustments for the entire product (cabinet, tuning, ..), so it's not a free exercise either.

But as a theoretical exercise I would be happy to use Purifi drivers, they are very good.

 

[David_M]

Thanks for this detailed answer (here's this North American trying to tell the difference between Sweden and Norway).
Yeah, switching drivers would definitely require a complete redesign, as you've indicated.

So, the concept of tactile bass- the bass you not only feel but you can almost touch- a concept I attribute mostly to ultralow bass driver distortion and maybe excellent crossover design (correct me if I'm wrong), is not unique to Purifi drivers? This was one of the points made by reviewers of speakers using their drivers.

Did your simulations of the 10" driver also include distortion performance, for you to say "it wouldn't improve the performance meaningfully over the current Scan-Speak driver"?

 

[SigbergAudio]

Thanks for this detailed answer (here's this North American trying to tell the difference between Sweden and Norway).
Yeah, switching drivers would definitely require a complete redesign, as you've indicated.

So, the concept of tactile bass- the bass you not only feel but you can almost touch- a concept I attribute mostly to ultralow bass driver distortion and maybe excellent crossover design (correct me if I'm wrong), is not unique to Purifi drivers? This was one of the points made by reviewers of speakers using their drivers.

Did your simulations of the 10" driver also include distortion performance, for you to say "it wouldn't improve the performance meaningfully over the current Scan-Speak driver"?

Purifi certainly have very low distortion, but that in itself is not unique, and a speaker system could achieve the same with other drivers or other approcahes as well. For instance with the SBS system or the Manta system you could in theory daisy chain as many subs as you like, and achieve vanishingly low distortion at any volume, it's a matter of enough power and drivers. When the new Sentinel sub arrives you could push it further still. At a price, of course.

 

[SigbergAudio]

Had a customer who lived only a couple of hours from me purchase a pair of SBS G2 with dual Inkognitos, so I went there to help him set them up. He had a small but very nice, dedicated media room. We tried different placements of the subs, but they ended up about 25% out from the back wall, so on each side of the listening position (and out of frame of this picture).

An interesting observation was that the subs measured quite well in one of the other placements as well, but sounded way better in the position we ended up in. So once in a while we need to trust our ears.

Average response of left+right speaker without subs (1/12 smoothing):

And the two subs, nice response down to 20hz (no smoothing):

 

[Salt]

Position is very close to the side walls: have You considered a hard toe in?

 

[SigbergAudio]

Position is very close to the side walls: have You considered a hard toe in?

That is something I will leave up to the customer to experiment with (and I actively advised him to do so). All our speakers generally survive well quite close to walls without excessive toe-in. They're toed in 10 degrees in the picture.

 

[Matt_Holland]

Had a customer who lived only a couple of hours from me purchase a pair of SBS G2 with dual Inkognitos, so I went there to help him set them up. He had a small but very nice, dedicated media room. We tried different placements of the subs, but they ended up about 25% out from the back wall, so on each side of the listening position (and out of frame of this picture).

An interesting observation was that the subs measured quite well in one of the other placements as well, but sounded way better in the position we ended up in. So once in a while we need to trust our ears.

View attachment 557260



Average response of left+right speaker without subs (1/12 smoothing):
View attachment 557261


And the two subs, nice response down to 20hz (no smoothing):

View attachment 557262

Nice.
Did you get a measurement with speakers plus subs? What crossover frequency did you end up with?

With the size of that room I can in only imagine the dynamics and headroom available.

 

[SigbergAudio]

Nice.
Did you get a measurement with speakers plus subs? What crossover frequency did you end up with?

With the size of that room I can in only imagine the dynamics and headroom available.

I don't have a full measurement as the customer only had a DMP-A6 as a preamp/streamer, and it has no analog inputs. Crossover frequency is always 100hz in our systems. It's preset, no need to configure on either sub or speakers.