New development thread: Sigberg Audio SBS Generation 2

[sigbergaudio]

A contrast is necessary here. Drum tracks are recorded separately on most studio albums. Recording implies arrangements, and therefore drastic modifications to the original sound. Many drummers today use electro-acoustic drum kits with lower sound pressure levels. Since recordings are, by definition, all more or less optimized, it's not really a problem for hi-fi systems to reproduce them. Therefore, there are good and bad recordings, just as there are good and bad speakers.

I did not say it was a problem for most hifi systems to reproduce recorded, mixed and mastered (and thus compressed) drum tracks. I said it was a problem for most hifi systems to reproduce the impact and sound pressure of a live drum kit (not electro-acoustic) as heard when being close to it in real life in the studio - as this was the premise presented in the message I replied to.

 

[sigbergaudio]

A good and comprehensive article on the SBS Generation 2 was just posted at Audioholics

Sigberg Audio New & Improved SBS Generation 2 Active Speaker System

Sigberg Audio released their SBS Generation 2 Active System with new drivers, revised crossover tuning from their MANTA speakers, upgraded amplification and higher output from the same compact form.

www.audioholics.com

 

[David_M]

Maybe it's appropriate to post this here (or not), but why do you apply a 35Hz HPF on a subwoofer? Why not allow the 10D to go as low as it's practically safe or possible to do so? Excellent GD btw.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Maybe it's appropriate to post this here (or not), but why do you apply a 35Hz HPF on a subwoofer? Why not allow the 10D to go as low as it's practically safe or possible to do so? Excellent GD btw.
View attachment 506318

There's a separate thread here about the 10D sub actually.

But to your question, the high pass is much further down than 35hz (below 20hz), even though GD starts to rise there.

The 10D is typically flat to 18-20hz in-room.

 

[David_M]

There's a separate thread here about the 10D sub actually.

But to your question, the high pass is much further down than 35hz (below 20hz), even though GD starts to rise there.

The 10D is typically flat to 18-20hz in-room.

Thanks, but its still under 1 cycle, which is excellent. Do you plan to go 12 inches or greater for Incognito and 10D (12D) ?

 

[sigbergaudio]

Thanks, but its still under 1 cycle, which is excellent. Do you plan to go 12 inches or greater for Incognito and 10D (12D) ?

The Inkognito is 12" already. For the 10D there are plans on paper for a bigger subwoofer, yes. But no timeline or anything definitive yet.

 

[David_M]

https://www.audioholics.com/bookshelf-speaker-reviews/sigberg-audio-sbs-generation-2

 

[David_M]

The Inkognito is 12" already. For the 10D there are plans on paper for a bigger subwoofer, yes. But no timeline or anything definitive yet.

But the 10D outperforms the 12-inch Inkognito? If so, why or how come? I thought the larger driver size is always advantageous, as far as technical specs are concerned.

 

[sigbergaudio]

But the 10D outperforms the 12-inch Inkognito? If so, why or how come? I thought the larger driver size is always advantageous, as far as technical specs are concerned.

The 10D has two drivers, while the Inkognito only has one. And the driver is essentially the same driver / same series from the manufacturer only with larger size. So 2x10" is much larger cone area than 1x12", and can move significantly more air.

More generally:
If you compare subwoofers I am afraid you know very little if you only look at the driver size. Different drivers have vastly different both quality and capacity. You can easily find two drivers of equal size where one of the drivers outperform the other driver by 2x or even 4x. Which then also means you can find a subwoofer that outperform another subwoofer even though the latter has a larger driver. Further you also know very little just by looking at amplifier power of subwoofers as well, since amplifer power is specified in very different ways, and different subwoofers have very different efficiency (how loud they can play with any given amplifier). So in summary it's pretty difficult to compare subwoofers from specs alone.

I actually wrote an article on the topic of subwoofer specs a few years back: https://www.sigbergaudio.com/blogs/news/subwoofer-specifications-explained

 

[David_M]

Thanks for the blog!

I'm curious, have you ever performed impulse tests on your subs? I read a review of a Rhythmik subwoofer (A ported sub using their Direct servo technology) and saw their impulse response. It looked beautiful, with hardly any ringing, if any. The reviewer said this is superb for a ported one, saying it explained its quick bass response, with no audible overhang. Loved it so much, he bought the review sample!

 

[sigbergaudio]

Thanks for the blog!

I'm curious, have you ever performed impulse tests on your subs? I read a review of a Rhythmik subwoofer (A ported sub using their Direct servo technology) and saw their impulse response. It looked beautiful, with hardly any ringing, if any. The reviewer said this is superb for a ported one, saying it explained its quick bass response, with no audible overhang. Loved it so much, he bought the review sample!

Do you have a link or reference to the review? Also, can we perhaps continue this in the thread for the Inkognito or 10D?

 

[sigbergaudio]

SBS G2 together with the big brothers.

 

[David_M]

SBS G2 together with the big brothers.

View attachment 508735

Front view?

 

[sigbergaudio]

Front view?

Didn't take one directly front and now I've moved the SBS away, but here's one that's a bit more from the front at least.

 

[sigbergaudio]

A pallet with new midbass drivers arrived this week, so now everything physical is in place to start building the new SBS G2. I am also happy with the tuning now. But need to go to Seas and the anechoic chamber once more to do final measurements, again with an attempt to also integrate the subwoofer. This will hopefully happen the week after next.

The measurement part is tedious work, taking a multitude of measurements over several hours. It is also not 100% exact as the microphone must be accurately leveled and pointed towards the speaker from 2 meters away. But will do my best to get good measurements for the ASR crowd.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Been to Seas anechoic chamber for some final adjustments and measurements today. Measured with subwoofer yet again. More detailed data coming soon, but here is reference axis (10deg):

 

[sigbergaudio]

Waiting to get spinorama.org updated, but here's a screenshot from ViutixCAD in the meantime.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Updated/final Spinorama data is out as well: https://www.spinorama.org/speakers/Sigberg Audio SBS G2/Sigberg Audio/index_vendor-v2.html

 

[kharan]

Updated/final Spinorama data is out as well: https://www.spinorama.org/speakers/Sigberg Audio SBS G2/Sigberg Audio/index_vendor-v2.html

View attachment 514823

Very nice.

How do you position the subs when you measure? I suppose just beneath the bookshelves would create some odd baffle interactions?

 

[sigbergaudio]

Very nice.

How do you position the subs when you measure? I suppose just beneath the bookshelves would create some odd baffle interactions?

It's one speaker and one sub. This picture is from last time I measured, but basically like this, on the "floor" (metal grid) next to the speaker. A bit challenging to dial in the sub as it has zero reinforcement from anything, as it's essentially floating in the middle of the room, no walls and no floor.