New Denon 3700/4700 DAC chip

[Chrispy]

Not sure what processing is and isn't on this-Audyssey? Something else?

Not sure what you're saying there. Audyssey is one type of processing, even bass management is a type of processing where the avr will reconvert to it's own sampling rate to process (48khz in your avr IIRC). Kind of defeats the purpose of an external dac.....

 

[Fahzz]

Thanks. That helps. That's why I asked.

 

[Chrispy]

Thanks. That helps. That's why I asked.

Yeah, I'd personally not bother with an external dac with an avr. Maybe if you use it in direct mode, but I tend to use the processing anyways. Dac quality/audibility just isn't much of an issue....

 

[Kael]

This forum gives me anxiety sometimes. I get all wound up over this DAC issue that I thought I'd avoided when I bought in January (obviously haven't) but then I realise my absolutely non-optimal room is no doubt contributing to worse sound than 14 potential dB of worse THD.

 

[lashto]

This forum gives me anxiety sometimes. I get all wound up over this DAC issue that I thought I'd avoided when I bought in January (obviously haven't) but then I realise my absolutely non-optimal room is no doubt contributing to worse sound than 14 potential dB of worse THD.

Not sure why you think that room issues are a reason to worry less about THD. These issues are actually quite Additive. Your room problems might be (much) bigger but they will not make the THD less noticeable or 'better' in any way. You just have two different problems.

Two negatives do not always make a positive And in the audio world, you can more safely bet on the opposite: 2 negatives can easily make things 5x worse...

 

[JuliusJekyll]

Hello forum users!
Please tell me what DACs are used in Maratz SR6015? Amirm did not have a review of this receiver?
Like at Denon 3700 or another chip?

P.S. - sorry for my english, it's a google translate.

 

[bgavin]

First post for me... I was very impressed reading Amir's reviews and test procedures.
He recommended the AVR-X3700H for all the reasons that appealed to me: reliability and decent sound.

Denon is offering the v2 on their site at $1199 firesale pricing.
Amazon is offering the v1 (year 2020) version for $1549.

Q: is the 2020 version worth the additional expense?
Q: what is the "HDMI 2.1 bug" that is supposedly corrected in the v2 models?

We are 1080p movies, no gaming, no interest in buying 4k BD discs.
Most movies ripped from standard BD to our NAS.
Plan will be a 5.1.4 system with high quality speakers.
At my age, my tested hearing is good to 9 KHz.

 

[JonK99]

Amazon is offering the v1 (year 2020) version for $1549.

I would not assume that what is being sold in the Amazon listing is any different from what Denon is selling for a lower price. The "2020" may just refer to the year this model was introduced, not the year the specific unit was manufactured. Outside of this forum and a few other places, very few people are even aware of the DAC chip change, so I'd be surprised if any major retailers are differentiating between the "old" and "new" versions of the X3700H.

 

[bgavin]

I am getting interested in the X3800H, and posted a question on the Denon site asking about which DAC is installed, and if the front face plate is metal or plastic.
I'm spoiled by my (still working) '70s era Yamaha separates, all of which were metal face plates, and not the plastic used in the X3700H.

I am hopeful the X3800 is an evolution of the X3700 that Amir liked so much, and it continues to earn his favor.

 

[sdo]

I'm considering that current AVR-X3700H V2 deal (I'm currently using a Denon AVR-3803 which is still great for what it does, but it's time to upgrade). I've been reading through these threads, the AVR-X3700H review thread, the AVR-X3800H review thread, etc. What I don't fully understand yet is where in the audio signal path these DACs are actually located. Are these the primary audio DACs for any digital audio (HDMI, streaming, etc.)? So it's digital stream -> DAC -> power amps and pre-outs? My primary 2-ch "high quality" audio uses cases are 1) an external streaming device with an external DAC to AVR analog input with AVR in "pure direct" mode, and 2) phono to phono preamp to AVR analog input in "pure direct". And the rest of the time I'm watching movies / TV which I want to sound good, but it's not as important me as the music sources I mentioned. Does the audio chain in AVR-X3700H ever digitize analog audio for processing / sub crossover when in "pure direct" mode?

 

[Brambo67]

I'm considering that current AVR-X3700H V2 deal (I'm currently using a Denon AVR-3803 which is still great for what it does, but it's time to upgrade). I've been reading through these threads, the AVR-X3700H review thread, the AVR-X3800H review thread, etc. What I don't fully understand yet is where in the audio signal path these DACs are actually located. Are these the primary audio DACs for any digital audio (HDMI, streaming, etc.)? So it's digital stream -> DAC -> power amps and pre-outs? My primary 2-ch "high quality" audio uses cases are 1) an external streaming device with an external DAC to AVR analog input with AVR in "pure direct" mode, and 2) phono to phono preamp to AVR analog input in "pure direct". And the rest of the time I'm watching movies / TV which I want to sound good, but it's not as important me as the music sources I mentioned. Does the audio chain in AVR-X3700H ever digitize analog audio for processing / sub crossover when in "pure direct" mode?

Exactly my solution for over one year now;
- External DAC (Topping) -> Analog (CD) input Denon AVC-X4700h (with TI-PCM DAC's) -> Marantz MM7025 Power Amp -> Audioquest cable -> Wharfedale EVO 4.4 speakers

For me this works. Really I can't hear the difference when in a Dolby Atmos movie, with lot's of sound effects, between AKM DAC in Denon or PCM DAC (I had the Denon AVC-X3700h with AKM DAC's, but it failed, and now own the Denon AVC-X4700h with TI PCM DAC's) To be fair; I often do Apple Music via Airplay to the Denon AVC-X4700h and enjoy CD-quality audio. I can do even ' A-B' switching when I connect my iPad to the Topping DAC and stream the same song via Airplay. I can't hear more noise or distortion to the highest level my ears still enjoy... The fact that I can pretend to be 'high-ending' with the Topping External DAC (2nd hand buy for a few Euro's) is fun to have but in hindsight no really needed. Good luck! You probably will find a lot of alternative opinions here (on what the individual human being can or cannot hear when it comes to noise and distortion levels)

 

[peng]

Does the audio chain in AVR-X3700H ever digitize analog audio for processing / sub crossover when in "pure direct" mode?

For analog input signal, in pure direct or direct mode it won't get digitized. Based on Amir's tests, even in stereo mode, if you don't use bass management and dsp, that is stereo with speaker set to large, the signal would not get digitized either. If you want to be sure, stick with direct/pure direct mode.

 

[bgavin]

Instead of the 3800, I went with the X3700H deal direct from Denon.
I figured there is little difference between the V2 3700 and the new 3800 other than more sub outputs.
I've not had one apart, but figure the DACs and other amp components are the same.
I have zero desire for Dirac nor the incredibly pricey cost of adding this feature down the road.

 

[rob755]

Not quite, we are both incorrect. SNR (noise alone) is quoted as 112dB, but THD (distortion alone) is 93. Given that is a fair way worse than SNR, then SINAD (noise and distortion) will be that (~93dB) as well.

View attachment 146756

So I've seriously been searching for the AVR X-3700H serial number info about when they made the forced switch to new dac chip(s?) due to AKM fire and being unavailable. Can anyone be of help? I just want to know how I can tell which I have or to look for. Please any help would be so appreciated! Thanks.

 

[ban25]

So I've seriously been searching for the AVR X-3700H serial number info about when they made the forced switch to new dac chip(s?) due to AKM fire and being unavailable. Can anyone be of help? I just want to know how I can tell which I have or to look for. Please any help would be so appreciated! Thanks.

Serial numbers ending in values at or above 70001 have the new DAC, as well as the fixed HDMI 2.1 board. These started rolling out in May 2021, whereas the AKM fire occurred in October 2020. If you want an AKM model, with broken HDMI, I suspect you are going to have to buy second hand.

 

[rob755]

Hi, Thanks so much for the info! I did see that serial number associated with the new hdmi board, but didn't know that also pertained to the DAC change at the same time. So THANKS again!

 

[Taso]

Indipendentemente dal chip DAC utilizzato, le prestazioni del ricevitore Denon saranno limitate dal circuito integrato di controllo del volume a 8 canali subito dopo.

Hi, if I enter in Denon digitally, does the problem you mention still occur? Thank you