New Dayton Epique Drivers

[Ktacos]

Waveguides aren't everything

They tend to be if you want good DI.

 

[Wolf]

No, it just makes it easier to get a decent DI.

 

[TheDichotomist]

This means if needed, you can passively shape response to a minor loss and still have plenty of output. This may be beneficial, as a small dip centered around 2k could be of benefit, looking at the CSD and spectrograms.

I wonder also, if a passive notch above 20k would be beneficial for dampening the influence of breakup and resonances that may cause intermodulation distortion. Similar to what you did with your signature speaker build, or the purifi app note.

If I use a dayton dsp amp board, I'd probably want to add some passive attenuation anyway, to reduce hiss.

 

[Ktacos]

No, it just makes it easier to get a decent DI.

I have some counter arguments but since I don't have cult of personality behind me like you, what I say doesn't really matter to anyone here ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Azrael]

and has high sensitivity in such a package.

I don't find the sensitivity that high: it may be around 93 dB/m at 2.83 V, but that's a 4-ohm driver. The conclusion of the test at Hifi-Selbstbau states:

Wegen des geringen Wirkungsgrades von 89 dB/W/m zeigen sich oberhalb von 105 dB thermische Kompressionseffekte

which translates as:

Due to the low efficiency of 89 dB/W/m, thermal compression effects occur above 105 dB.

I would have expected a little more from such a big monster of a dome tweeter.

This also means that there are not too many reserves left for the following intention:

If I use a dayton dsp amp board, I'd probably want to add some passive attenuation anyway, to reduce hiss.

 

[Ktacos]

I would have expected a little more from such a big monster of a dome tweeter.

I wouldn't, that's about the limit one should expect from most domes.

Looks like they're coming out with a mid. Even with the low tweeter xover though there's going to be a DI mismatch. Has some resonance at ~800hz?

specs attached in pdf.

 

[Wolf]

That 800Hz resonance dip occurs in a lot of woven poly, fiberglass, or carbon fiber cone drivers. I am pretty sure that kind of cone and the indexed surround make the effective diaphragm larger and include more surround before the sound hits the first 'wall' in travel, creating the surround resonance. Most 7" drivers have it about 1.5k, most 8" are around 800-900Hz.

 

[TheDichotomist]

*-sigh-* I got all excited, hoping it would be a dome driver, but alas... one of those loud looking woven things. And now i'm confused, that tweeter still looks pretty good to me.

This also means that there are not too many reserves left for the following intention:

I said I'd use passive attenuation/padding to reduce hiss and help smooth those breakup bits above 20khz. A DSP amp the way I would use it is only going to smooth out broad problems in a gentle way, preferably by attenuation. Really, the DSP will hopefully just allow me to prototype crossovers faster. I may still implement them with passive components. . . Either way, my desire to have a set of good dayton drivers I can just drop into a project and work with isn't looking so feasible now. All the marketing looks good, but it ends up sounding like the improvement from all this fancy RND and new material doesn't translate to huge benefit over, say, their inexpensive 25 dollar tweeters and woofers. . . Or maybe I'm an idiot *-shrugs-* This has been a lot to learn, and I'm not sure i've been learning it well~

 

[TheDichotomist]

I have some counter arguments but since I don't have cult of personality behind me like you, what I say doesn't really matter to anyone here ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm interested, although maybe a different thread is necessary. I like the idea that I don't need a waveguide provided I choose drivers with plenty of overlap and solid directivity performance overall, with low order crossovers between them. Keep the baffle out of the way and poof. Solid starting point. Could a waveguide improve things? Probably. Might let you cross a tweeter a little lower or integrate better with whatever midrange, but as far as I understand things right now, it's a nice to have kind of item.

 

[Ktacos]

*-sigh-* I got all excited, hoping it would be a dome driver

I used to be really interested in dome mids, then I tried to use them. Dispersion is just way too wide for anything other than very small bandwidth ala KH310's implementation.

If they had waveguided this new tweeter with a taper and size similar to purifi's currently released 104mm tweeter, it would have been a very good DI match to this new mid. But since they didn't, you're pretty much stuck with something like this on a typical 8" baffle. Just a quick sim using manufacturer data.

Who doesn't love their speaker having brightness they can't dial out? Well me for one.

 

[TheDichotomist]

I need to get acquainted with that software... looks very very handy.

 

[TheDichotomist]

I used to be really interested in dome mids, then I tried to use them. Dispersion is just way too wide for anything other than very small bandwidth ala KH310's implementation.

This is more or less how I planned to dial in a mid dome; between 350-650hz to 2.5-3.5khz The lower I can cross it over, the better. But unfortunately DIYers report that's difficult... Meanwhile, measurements I've seen for the domes I'm looking at say it's passable. Passable with an asterisk. Not sure I'll be getting the low distortion specs I want, even using these products in their intended range.