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New Dayton Epique Drivers

ROOSKIE

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For those worried about the designers of the woofer and the somewhat unique magnet arrangement.
It is not aesthetic and is a direct contributor to this driver reaching 13.6mm xmax and actually 17+mm when somewhat reduced fidelity is reasonable to accept.

"MMAG was invented by Enrique Stiles, and the MMAG patent (there are several) that applies to the E150HE-44, US6,917,690, was assigned to Step Technologies, Inc. Step Technologies was originally a partnership between two of the best transducer engineers with whom I have had the distinct pleasure of working—Enrique Stiles and Patrick Turnmire (Patrick has done much of the Klippel LSI analysis that has appeared in this column)... While the partnership is no longer together, Enrique is still developing MMAG woofers, the latest example being this month’s first driver to be examined the Dayton Audio Epique E150HE-44. Enrique is now an independent transducer engineering consultant and developed the two new Epique full-range subwoofers in conjunction with the engineering team at Dayton Audio."

"The primary magnetic drive is provided by the 121mm×25mm ferrite rear ring magnet, directly providing flux to the second rear 7mm gap. However, the secondary magnet system is comprised of six 28mm×8mm ferrite disks. These magnets do not add flux to the upper 7mm gap, but rather act as magnetic “diodes” (aka gap balancing magnets) pulling the flux from the main magnet into the top 7mm gap. These disks also provide an 8mm space between the two 7mm gaps as well as a conventional cooling path for the voice coil as it travels between the two gaps."

Thanks for posting. Nice to see the performance is good. Hope the 7 inch is as well constructed. The 5 inch needs a passive radiator or two while the 7 inch can be ported fairly easily
Yes indeed, fitting ports in a small enclosure tuned as low as this driver can be used is tricky and port chuffing will be factor as well.
That said.
If porting
(2)1.5" ports in a .33cuft box is do-able. Tuned to 42hrz the prediction is 15", reality is likely 20% shorter so perhaps 12". That fits.
A pair will hit 112db@1meter without room gain @ 40hrz. Ridiculous for a 5 in a small box. (@13.6mm excursion with 300watts)
To be fair port chuffing may be an issue though it is borderline with these ports. Would have to test.
If running sealed
In dual, tiny, 0.1cuft boxes a pair will hit 106 pre room gain with an f3 of 50hrz and f6 of 43hrz and f10 of 36hrz(even lower if modeled stuffed) when using 6db of bass boost at 50hrz(q1.5). Xmax is reached with 85watts/340 for 6db bass boosted zone.
Again ridiculous for a such a small system and would be great starting point to building small stuff that then easily mates to subs.
Who knows.

As far as a 2 way goes, it appears to have very good off axis response, better than a typical 6.5" despite the huge surround. I see no reason it can not be used as successfully as any typical 5.5-7" driver.
I am thinking a nice shallow waveguided tweeter, a deeper waveguide if sizewise it fits the small box, or even a very robust fat baffle dome tweeter crossed somewhere between 1200-2.2k.

I have not modeled the 7 yet but it seems like more of the same above and more SPL for larger rooms, just in a larger box (2-3 times the size)
Likely would require a 1.2k-1.8k crossover.

Here are HD distortion plots vs the $300 SB Acoustics’ Satori MW16TX-8 Textreme both taken in the same method @94db @1meter
satori dayton.jpg
 
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silverD

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As far as a 2 way goes, it appears to have very good off axis response, better than a typical 6.5" despite the huge surround. I see no reason it can not be used as successfully as any typical 5.5-7" driver.
I am thinking a nice shallow waveguided tweeter, a deeper waveguide if sizewise it fits the small box, or even a very robust fat baffle dome tweeter crossed somewhere between 1200-2.2k.
DXT-MAX front.jpg

DXT-MAX rear.jpg
 

ROOSKIE

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silverD

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Hi Rooskie, it's my build. It's called DXT-MAX, built into a PE 0.23ft^3 knockdown cabinet with a Seas DXT and SB racetrack PR. I sandwiched two 19mm baltic birch plywood pieces to make the baffle and cut them similar to the DXT-MON.
 
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ROOSKIE

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Hi Rooskie, it's my build. It's called DXT-MAX, built into a PE 0.23ft^3 knockdown cabinet with a Seas DXT and SB racetrack PR. I sandwiched 2 19mm baltic birch plywood pieces to make the baffle and cut them similar to the DXT-MON.
I found your thread over @PE. Awesome!
 

D!sco

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this is such a low output woofer that you really don't need a 90 db tweeter. a 85 db full-range will be fine.

look at Linkwitz Lab Pluto - he used a 2" Aurasound full-range for a tweeter crossed at 1 khz ...
Somehow I don't think this (or any of your ideas) are particularly valuable. The SEAS DXT is selected for directivity, and a 2" tweeter/fullrange won't disperse well above 10k.

It would be nice if you had some evidence when you denounce people's ideas.
 

airborne

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Somehow I don't think this (or any of your ideas) are particularly valuable. The SEAS DXT is selected for directivity, and a 2" tweeter/fullrange won't disperse well above 10k.

It would be nice if you had some evidence when you denounce people's ideas.

that's why i said use a supertweeter above the fullrange.

as for denouncing people's ideas - what ideas ?

Parts Express is spoon feeding you. You have no will power. You buy whatever they make in China and then you credit yourself with "ideas" ...

It's like when people vote for whoever the TV told them to vote for and then pat themselves on the back and be like " i'm so glad i don't live in a totalitarian dictatorship like China or Russia " ...

if any of you could think for yourself you wouldn't be buying anything that says "Dayton" on it in the first place ...

obviously the 3-way ( and the 2-way ) design i suggested here is a garbage design - but i'm just trying to keep it in line with the garbage driver at the heart of this discussion. to use a real tweeter like Seas in the same speaker as this Dayton abomination is just wrong to me. It goes against the spirit.

frankly the Tectonic BMR is also too good / not gimmicky enough to mate to this woofer but at least it's really inefficient. and then add a 100 db supertweeter to go with the 80 db woofer just to take absurdity to next level.

yeah you seem to be confused. you are trying to apply sound engineering practices to BS components. that's not the way to do it. the entire project must be done in the same spirit.

what you're doing is like buying a plastic toy car and then trying to upgrade it with Formula 1 parts. no no no. all wrong.
 
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airborne

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on a more serious note when i suggested 3" BMR i hadn't yet looked at the FR graph of the Dayton. i assumed it would be worse. you can definitely get away with higher XO point than what 3" BMR is capable of ( it can go to 200 hz ) so you can use a smaller fullrange. i then mentioned Linkwitz Pluto speaker that uses small AuraSound full-range @ 1 khz.

yes the reason Linkwitz does that is because his woofer is in a horizontal plane so always off-axis and that's why the XO point is so low. in the case of Dayton i would simply want to listen to as little of it as possible and use a lower XO point because of that, and with the super-low efficiency of the Dayton you can use any fullrange to cross over to it.

i am frankly taken aback by you mentioning directivity. i mean i can't believe people are trying to apply sound design principles to what is obviously a clown show from China.

if you're going to do serious design it should apply to all aspects of the project and vice versa.

i mean you don't see silver cables in prosound setups or black polyurea coated plywood boxes in hi-fi speakers.

products designed for professionals and children shouldn't be designed the same way. there is military stuff, medical stuff, industrial stuff, commercial stuff, consumer stuff and there are toys for children. each application has its own set of principles that goes along with it. you can't use one set of principles for component selection and another for integrating them together.

the 3-way i suggested with either a Fostex or Ribbon supertweeter would make a pretty good toy. the design you people are doing is just a sad incompetent speaker. it will never rise to professional quality standards anyway - you're just losing the opportunity to turn it into a fun semi-functional toy that it was supposed to be.
 
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Rick Sykora

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silverD

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Looks pretty nice!

When do you think you will complete and are you capable of doing directivity measurements?
Thanks Rick. While the build is complete, I haven't finalized the crossover due to being a novice. I have an omnimic and need to read up on some tutorials. Any suggestions? I would love to see some in-depth measurements of this speaker.
Nate
 
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Colonel7

Colonel7

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Thanks Rick. While the build is complete, I haven't finalized the crossover due to being a novice. I have an omnimic and need to read up on some tutorials. Any suggestions? I would love to see some in-depth measurements of this speaker.
Nate
This is a great thread that a number of members have had success with thanks to @napilopez

 

Rick Sykora

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Thanks Rick. While the build is complete, I haven't finalized the crossover due to being a novice. I have an omnimic and need to read up on some tutorials. Any suggestions? I would love to see some in-depth measurements of this speaker.
Nate

As mentioned, @napilopez's tutorial is great for measuring finished speakers. If you want more on designing, see my post here:


Since your design is comparable to Directiva r1, looking at those crossovers may be helpful.

Willing to help if you have more specific questions, just PM me.
 
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Ericglo

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The 180 measurements.
 

Rick Sykora

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The 180 measurements.

Saw this about a month ago and was rather perplexed. Seems decent as a small subwoofer but has pretty ugly distortion profile when used much higher. I will stick with the (EDIT) Esoteric drivers for now.

 
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Ericglo

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I keep thinking their main use is in very small enclosures. On the flip side, they seem to be best used in a three way.
 

Wolf

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Just wish the PRs would arrive so I can have the 7"PR for my 5.5" woofers. Unfortunately, the SB 5x8 PR will not sustain the results the 5.5" can dish.
 

D!sco

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That distortion profile is really testing what people can perceive. I can't help but think how easily it'll reach 10% with the volume cranked and a wide range to play. Maybe they're intended to be run in series as pairs? Still a small box for the output...
 

Wolf

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The 5.5" tested better with less HD overall.
 

Rick Sykora

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The 5.5" tested better with less HD overall.

Yes, but with low sensitivity, unless active, best use a couple!

As a midwoofer, the Esoteric 5.5 is better overall.
 
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