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new DAC

Features, aesthetics, ‘pride of ownership’ just not sound quality.
Keith
 
Purité Audio said:
There are a few stinkers right at the end of Amir’s list.
Keith
Click to expand...

does he have a list i can check? as I've just been searching online for DACs and his reviews have turned up and just been clicking on the links.. :)
 
I believe it was just that first design that wasn’t up to snuff, this one is ok.
www.audiosciencereview.com

Bluesound Node Icon Streamer Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Bluesound Node Icon Streamer, DAC and Preamplifier (ADC). It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $999. I can't say I am overly impressed by the design as it kind of looks plasticky. There is a nice large display but doesn't support touch...
www.audiosciencereview.com www.audiosciencereview.com
Keith
 
Here's something awful
www.audiosciencereview.com

Mhdt Labs Pagoda Review (R2R Tube DAC)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Mhdt Labs Pagoda R2R DAC with tube buffer. It is on kind loan from a member and costs (I think) US $1,570 with standard tube. While I am not a fan of the plexiglass front, the rest of the unit looks good: Stock tube is a US made tube. I...
www.audiosciencereview.com www.audiosciencereview.com

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So, well designed DACs certainly can sound the same, but there are plenty of stinkers around. I have a USB DAC which is absolute rubbish..
 
cairn_user said:
thanks, yes, I'm still not sure if DAC's do anything really? seems to be a 50/50 split from what I've seen online, but it's one of the few items i haven't tried...

i do have a mid range system and i don't think there's any difference between my node (amazon music) and my cdp which is the Cairn Fog v2.0 Soft 24/192..
Click to expand...
They definitely do something and can greatly improve the performance of any setup if you have a poor DAC. Do not listen to these people from the forum talking about DACs being a solved problem for decades and all this other nonsense because the reality is that 10 years ago it was very hard to find a transparent DAC on the market that didn't cost an arm and a leg. There were only a few choices and most of the world just flew by the seat of their pants based on marketing nonsense from companies who barely measured anything they built. Today it is very different and there are tons of very competent DACs for very affordable prices. These units often will greatly increase the performance of your setup. However I noticed that your setup already includes a streamer and even though that streamer has not been tested here, if it is a somewhat more recent model of the last decade; there is a reasonable chance that the performance is already transparent and as such buying another newer tested transparent DAC will not do anything for you.

I noticed somebody else suggested the WIIM streamer; this unit does come with a competent DAC. So, you could always replace your streamer with this one and you would negate the need for any other external hardware and you would be able to resell the streamer that you already have.
 
Jimster480 said:
They definitely do something and can greatly improve the performance of any setup if you have a poor DAC. Do not listen to these people from the forum talking about DACs being a solved problem for decades and all this other nonsense because the reality is that 10 years ago it was very hard to find a transparent DAC on the market that didn't cost an arm and a leg. There were only a few choices and most of the world just flew by the seat of their pants based on marketing nonsense from companies who barely measured anything they built. Today it is very different and there are tons of very competent DACs for very affordable prices. These units often will greatly increase the performance of your setup. However I noticed that your setup already includes a streamer and even though that streamer has not been tested here, if it is a somewhat more recent model of the last decade; there is a reasonable chance that the performance is already transparent and as such buying another newer tested transparent DAC will not do anything for you.

I noticed somebody else suggested the WIIM streamer; this unit does come with a competent DAC. So, you could always replace your streamer with this one and you would negate the need for any other external hardware and you would be able to resell the streamer that you already have.
Click to expand...
LOL. Define or provide your "poor dac" example....
 
RandomEar said:
The node N130 is specced at -113 dB THD+N
Click to expand...
Specced.

It measured way worse than that :
www.audiosciencereview.com

Bluesound Node Review (Streamer)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the 2021 Bluesound Node wired and wireless streamer and DAC. It is the next generation from Node 2i which I reviewed a while back. The Node costs US $549 and was kindly drop shipped to me by a member. In case you don't know, Bluesound is from the...
www.audiosciencereview.com www.audiosciencereview.com
 
voodooless said:
It's not speced at -113 dB THD+N either. That is only SNR! THD+N is only -94dB, still 7dB more than measured.
Click to expand...
For what it worth : the Node X (Limited anniversary) didn't do that much better. While announced at 110dB SINAD, best case scenario was around 97dB on my bench. There's clearly something wrong with Bluesound specsmanship.
 
Can A-weighted vs Non-weighted measurements result in such differences...? As we know, many manufacturers present A-w (many times not telling, though...)
 
cairn_user said:
hello...newb here :)

I'm thinking of buying a new DAC for my setup which is -
bluesound node N130 connected to a Cairn setup (4808 amp and mea mono blocks) connected to Dali Suite 2.8 speakers... and i listen to amazon music HD (also got a cairn CDP which i rarely use these days)...

first off, do i need a DAC?

the ones i was thinking of are the Topping E70 velvet, or the fiio warmer R2R...my budget is upto around £400 really...happy to buy second hand too...
Click to expand...
Just want to say—I used to have a Cairn 4808 North Face. Great amp and beautiful build quality and interface! Too bad Cairn-Ezo went out of business.
 
Jimster480 said:
Lots of integrated trash DACs that ship in laptops, some phones, on desktop motherboards, auto head units, and sometimes even home theater hardware.
Click to expand...
Point to where the dac hurt you? So pretty much all those dacs failed? How particularly? LOL
 
Nutul said:
Can A-weighted vs Non-weighted measurements result in such differences...? As we know, many manufacturers present A-w (many times not telling, though...)
Click to expand...
Sometimes.
Chrispy said:
Point to where the dac hurt you? So pretty much all those dacs failed? How particularly? LOL
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what sort of pathetic response this is, but I didn't name any specific model. It sounds like you don't have a good understanding of what we are talking about, but felt like throwing your two cents in.

If you've ever actually used the laptop with a headphone output, you would know that most of them have really poor performance, and the same thing is the case for most motherboard audio.

We have also seen many pieces of stereo equipment and receivers that have way less than transparent performance even when they have claimed state-of-the-art performance.
 
Jimster480 said:
Sometimes.

I'm not sure what sort of pathetic response this is, but I didn't name any specific model. It sounds like you don't have a good understanding of what we are talking about, but felt like throwing your two cents in.

If you've ever actually used the laptop with a headphone output, you would know that most of them have really poor performance, and the same thing is the case for most motherboard audio.

We have also seen many pieces of stereo equipment and receivers that have way less than transparent performance even when they have claimed state-of-the-art performance.
Click to expand...

The idea of so many "bad" dacs being promoted is what I'm responding to....and understand the subject.

I have used a few laptops with a headphone, not my preference but during a power outage can work. I had no issues with dac performance. Maybe your laptop has analog output issues other than dac, too.
 
Svend P said:
He never said that. Some measure better than others, but they all sound the same.
Click to expand...
He will ask for a proof for such claim :-)
www.audiosciencereview.com

In a nutshell...

To misquote the Grinch: “I’ve puzzled and puzzled till my puzzler was sore. Have I missed something I haven't thought of before?” If I have this correct… To get the best sound in my living room….I need a sonically-invisible amp, a (solidly built) selector switch as a pre-amp, a modern DAC from...
www.audiosciencereview.com www.audiosciencereview.com
 
Chrispy said:
The idea of so many "bad" dacs being promoted is what I'm responding to....and understand the subject.

I have used a few laptops with a headphone, not my preference but during a power outage can work. I had no issues with dac performance. Maybe your laptop has analog output issues other than dac, too.
Click to expand...
I didn't say It "couldn't work" but most laptops have very audibly poor audio output even when feeding a very low power draw IEM. Same is the case for most motherboard audio, even on most higher end boards (there are a few exceptions).
So in this case the analog audio output is indeed the "DAC" as a DAC produces analog audio output, some devices have headphone amps and still sound Terrible (as is the case with my Lenovo Carbon laptop).

There are also plenty of audio products on the market (especially prior to the rise of this website) which have extremely poor audio performance, with terrible linearity and multi tone performance, some of which have astonishingly bad SINAD performance (which is basically a dashboard of 1khz industry standard tone).

I am of the belief (which comes through many years of meticulously testing various hardware in blind testing with extremely resolving headphones and amp) that if you have a DAC that has less than 100db SINAD performance and more than 0.5db error in linearity and a multi tone with sizable bands above -90 that you are giving up something sonicly. Whether you can hear it or identify it or ever notice depends on other factors, some of which could be debated endlessly... But when such a DAC can be had for sub $100 in a portable or sub $200 in a free standing multi-input self powered version... Why take a chance or debate otherwise? Just buy something good and be sure you are getting the cleanest signal to extract the most out of your amp, headphones or speakers.
 
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