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cairn_user

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Jan 30, 2026
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hello...newb here :)

I'm thinking of buying a new DAC for my setup which is -
bluesound node N130 connected to a Cairn setup (4808 amp and mea mono blocks) connected to Dali Suite 2.8 speakers... and i listen to amazon music HD (also got a cairn CDP which i rarely use these days)...

first off, do i need a DAC?

the ones i was thinking of are the Topping E70 velvet, or the fiio warmer R2R...my budget is upto around £400 really...happy to buy second hand too...
 
cairn_user said:
hello...newb here :)

I'm thinking of buying a new DAC for my setup which is -
bluesound node N130 connected to a Cairn setup (4808 amp and mea mono blocks) connected to Dali Suite 2.8 speakers... and i listen to amazon music HD (also got a cairn CDP which i rarely use these days)...

first off, do i need a DAC?

the ones i was thinking of are the Topping E70 velvet, or the fiio warmer R2R...my budget is upto around £400 really...happy to buy second hand too...
Click to expand...
Welcome to ASR !

No, you do not 'need' a DAC.
 
£400 on a dac should buy you all the facilities you need. If balanced connections aren't needed, an SMSL SU1 at £67 or so from Amazon UK will 'technically' do all that's needed for transparent (to the source recording as mastered).

Now, lest you scoff at the above, do PLEASE bear in mind that R2R dacs are ancient tech and don't offer any advantages other than subjectivist forum points (Denafrips used to be the dac of choice on UK based subjective-based forums I recall). Other expensive models are costed with 80% casework costs or therabouts - the SU1 I refer to has a basic metal case and a row of leds to indicate input being used, but it's not at all fancy.

Oh Lord, I'm probably not telling you what you want to hear (I love cheap stuff that kills audio 'giants' and there's a lot about these days ;)). Only spend lots if the appearance and facilities matter. I don't know the Bluesound at all, but as stated above, it may be totally transparent too, so a dac wouldn't be needed...


Others here are more expert than I'll ever be in this now, but room correction is where it should be at I think. Many threads on how to use REW and a Umik to best optimise your rig as it is :)
 
DSJR said:
£400 on a dac should buy you all the facilities you need. If balanced connections aren't needed, an SMSL SU1 at £67 or so from Amazon UK will 'technically' do all that's needed for transparent (to the source recording as mastered).

Now, lest you scoff at the above, do PLEASE bear in mind that R2R dacs are ancient tech and don't offer any advantages other than subjectivist forum points (Denafrips used to be the dac of choice on UK based subjective-based forums I recall). Other expensive models are costed with 80% casework costs or therabouts - the SU1 I refer to has a basic metal case and a row of leds to indicate input being used, but it's not at all fancy.

Oh Lord, I'm probably not telling you what you want to hear (I love cheap stuff that kills audio 'giants' and there's a lot about these days ;)). Only spend lots if the appearance and facilities matter. I don't know the Bluesound at all, but as stated above, it may be totally transparent too, so a dac wouldn't be needed...


Others here are more expert than I'll ever be in this now, but room correction is where it should be at I think. Many threads on how to use REW and a Umik to best optimise your rig as it is :)
Click to expand...

thanks for the input...i've been into hifi's for some years (as you can probably tell from my aging kit :)

i'm just after seeing if i can improve on what i have, i have decent cables, and think the bluesound DAC could be a weakspot, and whilst doing some preliminary research these 2 Dacs popped up on my radar...not sure I'd be too bothered about room correction as it stands.. :)
 
cairn_user said:
yep, maybe i should have worded it better :D

would my system benefit from having one?
Click to expand...
Another DAC may measure better.

I am uncertain you will perceive a difference.

Consider auditioning a WiiM streamer as source streaming Amazon HD - for the WiiM's ability to apply room correction to your listening space.

A WiiM Mini streamer can be connected to the optical input of an N130.
 
Power Pop 23 said:
Another DAC may measure better.

I am uncertain you will perceive a difference.

Consider auditioning a WiiM streamer as source streaming Amazon HD - for the WiiM's ability to apply room correction to your listening space.

A WiiM Mini streamer can be connected to the optical input of an N130.
Click to expand...

yeah, not sure I'd want to connect a streamer into another streamer..?
 
cairn_user said:
yeah, not sure I'd want to connect a streamer into another streamer..?
Click to expand...
Agreed. :)

I perceive greater clarity in playback when I enable room correction in my listening spaces.

Consider budgeting for a way of inserting room correction into your signal path - to mitigate anomalies between your loudspeakers and your listening space - with the option to apply Parametric EQ separately - to more precisely adjust the frequency response of loudspeakers or headphones.

Perhaps a select WiiM streaming device can replace your N130.
 
The node N130 is specced at -113 dB THD+N with no info on frequency response and a couple of other metrics which would be interesting. I also couldn't find any independent measurements, which means you'll have to rely on the manufacturer knowing how to verify those specs and being honest. Assuming they are true and there's no other major oversight in the design of the N130, it should be fully transparent and there's zero gain in adding another DAC - outside of new features like EQ and room correction, of course.

The Topping E70 will also not sound "more velvety" and the Fiio R2R won't be "warmer" - it's all just marketing blubber. Unless your DAC is broken or badly designed, it should sound the same (assuming similar filters and EQ turned off). There's modern DACs in high frequency applications like WiFi, 5G and other fields replicating GHz level signals with high precision. Audio signals with a couple of kHz are not something posing a technical challenge anymore and haven't been for decades.
 
RandomEar said:
The node N130 is specced at -113 dB THD+N with no info on frequency response and a couple of other metrics which would be interesting. I also couldn't find any independent measurements, which means you'll have to rely on the manufacturer knowing how to verify those specs and being honest. Assuming they are true and there's no other major oversight in the design of the N130, it should be fully transparent and there's zero gain in adding another DAC - outside of new features like EQ and room correction, of course.

The Topping E70 will also not sound "more velvety" and the Fiio R2R won't be "warmer" - it's all just marketing blubber. Unless your DAC is broken or badly designed, it should sound the same (assuming similar filters and EQ turned off). There's modern DACs in high frequency applications like WiFi, 5G and other fields replicating GHz level signals with high precision. Audio signals with a couple of kHz are not something posing a technical challenge anymore and haven't been for decades.
Click to expand...

thanks, yes, I'm still not sure if DAC's do anything really? seems to be a 50/50 split from what I've seen online, but it's one of the few items i haven't tried...

i do have a mid range system and i don't think there's any difference between my node (amazon music) and my cdp which is the Cairn Fog v2.0 Soft 24/192..
 
cairn_user said:
thanks, yes, I'm still not sure if DAC's do anything? seems to be a 5-/50 split from what I've seen online, but it's one of the few items i haven't tried...

i do have a mid range system and i don't think there's any difference between my node (amazon music) and my cdp which is the Cairn Fog v2.0 Soft 24/192..
Click to expand...
DACs are a solved problem as long as they reach the threshold of transparency. As long as they measure transparent they are indistinguishable in a level matched blind test. I suggest not to trust all the subjective uncontrolled chatter out there, take your time and read around at ASR. If you want to try for yourself, any DAC tested and recommended by Amir should be a safe buy regardless of the price.
 
To bring a real, tangible improvement its almost always, loudspeakers and their interaction with the room.
Keith
 
Purité Audio said:
To bring a real, tangible improvement its almost always, loudspeakers and their interaction with the room.
Keith
Click to expand...

yep, i had thought about that...tho i like my speakers, but I'm inclined to keep them until they break (same with the rest of my kit) - as i got them in a good deal, but if i sold them I'd get pennies for them :D
 
cairn_user said:
yep, i had thought about that...tho i like my speakers, but I'm inclined to keep them until they break (same with the rest of my kit) - as i got them in a good deal, but if i sold them I'd get pennies for them :D
Click to expand...
You can still tackle "their interaction with the room" with free room correction software such as REW.
Personally I use Genelec's built in GLM room correction because it's so simple, but that's no use if you don't have or don't intend purchasing Genelecs.
 
cairn_user said:
thanks, yes, I'm still not sure if DAC's do anything really? seems to be a 50/50 split from what I've seen online, but it's one of the few items i haven't tried...

i do have a mid range system and i don't think there's any difference between my node (amazon music) and my cdp which is the Cairn Fog v2.0 Soft 24/192..
Click to expand...
Let me put it that way: There are people out there claiming the earth is flat. It's not difficult to verify that this is false. Yet, there's tens of thousands of people online claiming it nonetheless. If you look into the wrong Facebook group, they even represent the majority. Now imagine someone starts to claim something slightly less idiotic which is just a bit more difficult to debunk. That's the essence of online audiophile content.

Audio discussion is heavily lopsided in the sense that there are millions of people spouting nonesense, unaware of the limitations of their senses and the existence of cognitive biases. And all of it is made worse by the fact that claiming to hear differences where there are none is making people feel special - after all, they must have superior ears if they can hear what so many can't, right? They can even hear things which can't be measured - humans to the rescue where the best and most mnodern technology fails! Who is science that it tries to take that away from them? Blasphemy! ;)

All that was probably seeded by the fact that once, maybe 60 to 80 years ago, audible differences did in fact exist between devices like amps. They are essentially eliminated today, but it doesn't benefit the right people to admit it. Manufacturers, audio magazines and reviewers were and are counting on selling the idea of better and better sound to make a profit, so it only makes sense for them to keep the notion alive that it must be true: More expensive amps sound better! Some DACs are special and you need to pay good money to become special yourself! Only brand XYZ can give you that smooth sound you always desired!
 
RandomEar said:
Let me put it that way: There are people out there claiming the earth is flat. It's not difficult to verify that this is false. Yet, there's tens of thousands of people online claiming it nonetheless. If you look into the wrong Facebook group, they even represent the majority. Now imagine someone starts to claim something slightly less idiotic which is just a bit more difficult to debunk. That's the essence of online audiophile content.

Audio discussion is heavily lopsided in the sense that there are millions of people spouting nonesense, unaware of the limitations of their senses and the existence of cognitive biases. And all of it is made worse by the fact that claiming to hear differences where there are none is making people feel special - after all, they must have superior ears if they can hear what so many can't, right? They can even hear things which can't be measured - humans to the rescue where the best and most mnodern technology fails! Who is science that it tries to take that away from them? Blasphemy! ;)

All that was probably seeded by the fact that once, maybe 60 to 80 years ago, audible differences did in fact exist between devices like amps. They are essentially eliminated today, but it doesn't benefit the right people to admit it. Manufacturers, audio magazines and reviewers were and are counting on selling the idea of better and better sound to make a profit, so it only makes sense for them to keep the notion alive that it must be true: More expensive amps sound better! Some DACs are special and you need to pay good money to become special yourself! Only brand XYZ can give you that smooth sound you always desired!
Click to expand...

i think you could be right...been watching some youtube videos and a lot of reviewers tend to have affiliate links links to where you can buy them from...and i've watched a few debunking them too...and it got me confused especially considering how many seem to be available, and the likes of topping seem to release a new version of DAC's almost yearly it seems..!
 
cairn_user said:
i think you could be right...been watching some youtube videos and a lot of reviewers tend to have affiliate links links to where you can buy them from...and i've watched a few debunking them too...and it got me confused especially considering how many seem to be available, and the likes of topping seem to release a new version of DAC's almost yearly it seems..!
Click to expand...
Yep, modern reviewers mostly make money if you buy the device using their affiliate links. Ads are not enough anymore to support their businesses. Similar problem with written review sites. Nearly all of them also have come to rely on manufacturers supplying them with the newest devices, because it would be too expensive to actually buy them all. And manufacturers don't tend to send devices to reviewers, who are overly critical of their new toys.
 
well, it's interesting that no one has suggested that i buy one or even a suggestion of one to look at..

maybe i'll just buy a seiko tictac SZSB006 instead :)
 
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