New Collaboration with Ascilab!

[amirm]

Just to be clear, if you have exclusive rights, does that mean I can no longer order directly from ascilabs to Canada?

There is currently no inventory to buy from us or them. Please give us some time to figure this out. It is not clear for example that we have to pay tariffs.

 

[amirm]

The fact that everyone is taking offense to it, and Amir is getting so upset makes me question it more.

You think you made me upset so are doubling down? Who thought you to be persuasive this way?

As to "everyone," there are 263 likes of the original announcement. I think there are less than five of you complaining. This in your book is "everyone?" No wonder your arguments make no sense.

It is that warm reception that allows me to let your poorly stated arguments to sail past me. I am thankful to the membership for being so supportive and seeing the value of this endeavor.

 

[A Surfer]

... don't feed the trolls.

 

[voodooless]

seeing the value of this endeavor.

Nobody saw no value in this endeavor… That is a clear misrepresentation of the concerns.

 

[prestigetone]

Nobody saw no value in this endeavor… That is a clear misrepresentation of the concerns.

Yep, I said the exact opposite. The cherry picking in this thread is astounding. Amir and others calling me out for saying "everyone" when I corrected that soon after. How am I trolling? Clearly there are concerns from more than just me. If there weren't this thread would not be 19 pages and counting.

This is wild to me if this is how a distributor treats potential customers. I've been planning to recommend these speakers to other people and was going to pick up a pair, but that most likely wouldn't be through this channel. I'd rather fly to Korea.

@voodooless is forum donor. They have literally donated to this website and somehow what they say isn't correct.

From ASR rules

"Please do not link to monetized content (text or video) too often. We reserve the right to remove such links as ASR is not in the business of promoting commercialized content."

And "Any for sale item needs to be posted in the Desperate Dealers forum: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?forums/desperate-dealers-forum.37/"

Yet there is an entire post about Ascilab polling users what models are most desired. It's a free way to leverage more sales.

 

[amirm]

If there weren't this thread would not be 19 pages and counting.

You have single handedly dominated the the thread with the same complaint over and over again. That doesn't mean there are a lot of you.

Amir and others calling me out for saying "everyone" when I corrected that soon after.

You mean this "correction?"

I didn't mean everyone, but a lot of people are.

There are not remotely a lot of people. It is you and a few others. On the other side, there are 260+ happy people, which far, far outnumber you.

There was never an expectation that everyone would like this. The hope was that many would and that is how it has turned out. Overwhelmingly so. I am gratified and am now on the mission to execute, not listen to repeated complaints, accusations of being victimized, etc. Move on.

 

[amirm]

Yet there is an entire post about Ascilab polling users what models are most desired. It's a free way to leverage more sales.

That's right. And there will be more. This store belongs to the membership as much as the forum does. It aims to cater to the membership's desire for products. This is also the value we bring to manufacturers when we represent them.

There have been other very large forums that are run this way such as AVS Forum. Before they got sold, the owners would not let you even discuss price of any products, lest they lose a sale to someone else! Immediate ban was not out of the question if you as much as breathed that some outlet was selling an AV product at a discount.

Before ASR, I co-founded Whats Best Forum and my partner was a dealer for LAMM Audio products. After I left, he took on other products such as footers, etc.

Head-fi.org has sponsors which they protect at all cost. Their rights to market products to you comes before any rights you have as a member. You can get banned in an instant if you say anything against their commercial interest. Same is true of many other forums.

Not that we want to be anything like they are. Just that commercial interests are the norm, not the exception. You are spoiled by how much we keep such things out as to now be demanding that I count rosaries every morning.

 

[BeeKay]

Don’t feed him.

 

[SorenTyson]

I see this completely reversed than the complaining guys. I have trust

Earned by the integrity Amir has run this site with, giving us non-biased factual information for free, something you couldn't even pay to get before asr.

I trust this continues, I trust that he only sells speakers that are objectively good, and I trust it is worth the mark-up to have a local dealer handling tariffs and returns.

 

[krumpol]

Local specialized distributor is always a good thing for me, carrying all the transportation risk and hassle in case of replacing damaged units.
Glad to see there's also European alternative to buy this brand from, wish you guys long and successful run!

 

[A Surfer]

This community can still adhere to it's mission statement perfectly even if Amir and his brother have commercial interests. Both things can happen simultaneously. It is about ethical behaviour and I think Amir has more than earned the assumption from all of us that he will act ethically. It was beyond the beyond that any of you questioned that. What was your proof?

For a select few in this thread your voiced concerns absolutely came across as thinly veiled accusations. And this community can remain true to its mission even if Ascilab gets a little more attention. As long as the products are evaluated to the same standard of scrutiny.

There is nothing that obligates Amir to maintaining a ratio of anything in terms of focus. He will understandably be putting some effort into the venture and yes that may mean a few things lag here and there. That's fine. He doesn't have to be perfect in order to remain ethical and follow the mission statement. That's my opinion.

 

[M.C. Logan]

That's only a 4.3mx4.3m room. I've been to Europe, Latin America and they absolutely do have room size bigger than this.

In Asia, maybe that a different story if you live in the urban area.

In the UK the normal size of a living room is squarish, around 12-14 ft wall length with ceilings around 7ft 6". Same in most countries in Europe whose housing stock is mostly older than 70 years. Huge amounts of people in Europe live in flats, rooms are not large. Only the wealthy have large rooms, land is the biggest cost of property in Europe, typically 2/3 of the value of a new build. I speak as a resident of Europe (UK with much continental travel). My living room is 14x15ft, a 2 bedroom bungalow, current value is around $USD 1,000,000.

For reference:

In the decades between 1930 and 2020, the size of the average living room in newly built houses in Britain has risen from 16 square meters in the 1930s, to 24.9 square meters in the 1970s, before falling to 17.1 square meters in recent years. The reason for the increase in living room size (and house sizes in general) between 1950 and 1980, was due to Britain's economic recovery after the Second World War. However, decreasing family sizes caused the demand for larger houses to drop from the 1980s onwards, and today, newly built living rooms are closer in size to their pre-war levels than their size in the previous decade.

( https://www.statista.com/statistics/1056003/average-living-room-sizes-new-british-houses-1930-2020/ )

As with most mean averages with relatively high minima the mean values are skewed upwards by the upper deciles, the median values will be lower.

 

[Audionaut]

There is. It is one cent!

You should rename the speakers from ASCILAB to "Speakers of the Great Donation" as part of this generous discount.

 

[prestigetone]

While the subjective listening portion could become inherently biased, that’s what the measurements are for (and the amount of people who want a neutral/transparent speaker but don’t believe in a relation between measurements and listening impressions is likely not a large subset).

I really, really, hope that you can remain truly impartial. It is what we prize most of all about this place.

Bias is human and unavoidable. It's how you manage it.

You can only manage it if you can see it, which is not always easy.

I dunno, seems like you are surrendering neutrality. Or the appearance of it.

Sorry to be a downer, but this creates a clear conflict of interest. Future speaker reviews can’t help but take the ascilabs’ interests into consideration. It isn’t a matter of integrity. The problem is structural. It can’t be cured by disclosure. Imagine the howl if stereophile became a speaker distributor.

And I hope this doesn't mean Erin is shut off from reviewing the products.

Agreed, send AsciLabs to Erin going forward. This is a major conflict of interest and doesn’t look good for ASR

These are some of the posts mentioning bias or alluding to it, which is more than a few.

@amirm You didn't respond to any of my mentions of the site rules. Will you adhere to those yourself. You say there are many more to come which means you plan on generating more buzz around the brand. Shouldn't all of this go in the Desperate Dealers section?

Everyone is saying I am trolling when these are all valid points to bring up. Did anyone read my initial thoughts? I championed the data and said it could not be manipulated, saying this was a good fit for AsciLab. Which I stand by. @voodooless had only positive things to say. It was when anyone questioned how this new business partnership would be handled that the echo chamber kicks into full gear.

The majority of the responses are positive. Without a doubt. Pose that question outside of ASR to get a true sense of what people think. What if Rtings.com was the sole distributor for LG tvs? Yes I realize they monetize links in their reviews, but people would look at their data entirely differently if they became the representative of the company itself.

Distribution for an entire continent is wholly different than monetizing links. Amir said that his brother would be handling this, but Amir is posting about this. Shouldn't it be his brother who handles that? I just hope you treat your customers better than people on this forum, because once any form of disagreement comes along, you attack them and say "How dare you?"

I wonder if Amir has ever apologized to anyone on this forum or admitted a mistake. Finding faults in your own work is critical to remaining impartial.

For a select few in this thread your voiced concerns absolutely came across as thinly veiled accusations. And this community can remain true to its mission even if Ascilab gets a little more attention. As long as the products are evaluated to the same standard of scrutiny.

I don't think anyone has accused anyone of being improper. People are wanting to make sure ASR stays largely the same. Go back through what everyone, including me, said. I thought this was a great fit. Now I wonder if Amir would treat me differently as a customer if I purchased his product and wasn't speaking highly of him here. Anyone who says they don't have bias is lying or delusional.

 

[A Surfer]

Why would someone apologize when they haven't done anything wrong? Seriously dude, you really need to let this go. It feels like you have an axe to grind.

 

[prestigetone]

Why would someone apologize when they haven't done anything wrong? Seriously dude, you really need to let this go. It feels like you have an axe to grind.

Did you even read what I wrote? I was saying I doubt he has ever admitted making any mistake on here. So he is the second coming and has never done anything wrong?

 

[A Surfer]

I think that you have laid out your concerns and arguments already. People will read and draw their own conclusions. By continuing on you are really just coming across as someone who is looking for justice. How has Amir wronged you? And why remain in the community if the host is so problematic for you?

 

[prestigetone]

I think that you have laid out your concerns and arguments already. People will read and draw their own conclusions. By continuing on you are really just coming across as someone who is looking for justice. How has Amir wronged you? And why remain in the community if the host is so problematic for you?

I had absolutely no qualms with Amir and sang his praises, until this thread. I am not looking for justice. You respond to me saying I am grinding an axe but then have no comment on me asking if he will adhere to his own rules, ones that other dealers or company reps have to abide by? How would you view a ratings aggregator like Rtings.com if they suddenly became the sole distributor for a product they review. Would that change your view of them?

 

[A Surfer]

I had absolutely no qualms with Amir and sang his praises, until this thread. I am not looking for justice. You respond to me saying I am grinding an axe but then have no comment on me asking if he will adhere to his own rules, ones that other dealers or company reps have to abide by? How would you view a ratings aggregator like Rtings.com if they suddenly became the sole distributor for a product they review. Would that change your view of them?

I don't think I would change my view unless they were changing how they rated the products in order to deliberately make extra financial gain through intentional manipulation.

 

[Audionaut]

As ASR has science integrated into its name, it is advisable to broaden your horizons from time to time and also look at other areas of science.

In other words, a more general look at how the sale of and/or attachment to a product can change its valuation.

When individuals sell or promote products they are personally involved with—whether through creation, ownership, or entrepreneurship—their objectivity often becomes compromised. A wide body of research from behavioral economics, psychology, and marketing has demonstrated that people systematically overvalue products they are associated with. This distortion in judgment arises from several well-documented cognitive mechanisms.

One of the most robust findings in behavioral economics is the Endowment Effect. Pioneering studies by Kahneman, Knetsch, and Thaler (1990, 1991) showed that people tend to assign significantly higher value to items they own compared to identical items they do not. This bias is not just a matter of personal preference; it reflects a deeper cognitive process linked to loss aversion—the tendency to feel losses more intensely than equivalent gains. When someone sells a product they identify with, their mental "ownership" inflates its perceived worth, leading to unrealistic pricing or exaggerated claims about quality.

Closely related is the concept of cognitive dissonance, introduced by Leon Festinger in 1957. According to this theory, individuals strive for consistency between their beliefs and actions. When someone actively markets a product, especially in public or high-stakes contexts, it becomes psychologically uncomfortable to hold doubts about its quality. To resolve this discomfort, they may unconsciously adjust their beliefs upward, convincing themselves that the product is better than it actually is. This internal rationalization bolsters confidence but reduces critical distance.

Another powerful influence is the self-serving bias—the tendency to attribute success to one’s own abilities while blaming failures on external factors. Sellers and creators are particularly prone to this: if the product sells well, it's seen as evidence of its inherent value (and by extension, their own competence). If it fails, external explanations—such as poor marketing or a "misunderstood" audience—are often invoked. Either way, the feedback loop discourages impartial assessment.

In the entrepreneurial context, these biases converge into what's often called Founder’s Bias or Entrepreneurial Overconfidence. Research on startup behavior (e.g. Zhao et al., 2005) indicates that founders frequently overestimate the appeal, uniqueness, or functionality of their products. This overconfidence can be motivating and even necessary in early business stages, but it can also impair decision-making, market fit evaluations, and openness to criticism.

Together, these effects paint a consistent picture: personal involvement with a product, especially in a selling role, leads to psychological mechanisms that inflate perceived value and reduce objectivity. Sellers may genuinely believe in their product's superiority—not as a deliberate deception, but as a result of unconscious mental adjustments.

To counteract these effects, researchers recommend concrete strategies: seek external, independent evaluations; expose products to critical user feedback; benchmark prices and quality against comparable offerings; and cultivate a mindset of constructive skepticism, even toward one’s own work.