I can see the problem with the LF roll off, but I’m not understanding the issue with the difference in the higher frequencies. This may be XO 101 so forgive me, what is it about the upper frequency response that is inferior-it just looks flatter to me?
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New build of Linkwitz LXMini
- Thread starter suttondesign
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I can see the problem with the LF roll off, but I’m not understanding the issue with the difference in the higher frequencies. This may be XO 101 so forgive me, what is it about the upper frequency response that is inferior-it just looks flatter to me?
well it's just that SL designed this speaker in a way 'that would not be possible with traditional crossovers'. he mentions this over and over in his website. in my opinion, the only reason why he budged was to further propagate the ongoing success of the LXmini to the 'Analog' audience.
you can see that the crossover is not the same, which will slightly alter the speaker's radiation pattern making it less cardioid at the mids (like it should be) by transitioning to dipole / omni radiation quicker.
the 'PEQ filters' were all smoothed out in non-recognizable fashion.
the difference is there and obvious, SL either approved the analog design out of compassion or because he honestly couldn't hear a difference because of his age.
but it's really not exactly the same speaker with the analog version.
Jer
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I used xkitz 12v pre amp powered boards cross over boards and It sounds pretty great. Just need to measure and tweak fiberfill and pipe lengths. Then can and any passive tweaks to the power side from there.
Endymion Joshi-Godrez
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For those that have tried the lxmini, would you say 75w at 8ohms is enough for the woofers in a mid sized living room or do you think it requires more headroom? I listen around 85db.
I powered mine from an old 30W per channel NAD 6-channel amp. Plenty loud enough.
Endymion Joshi-Godrez
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But does it get to 45hz? The lower you go in frequency, the more power you need, so something can sound really loud but have no bass. I know the lxmini is not a bassy speaker and I plan to use it with my subwoofer, I just want the cut off to be as low as possible.
I haven't measured them. But if you have a subwoofer I would crossover higher if possible 60-80 Hz at least. While the LXminis do theoretically go down to ~40 Hz distortion is pretty high and you will never get them to play super loud regardlees of amplifier. They sound much better if you relieve them of as much bass duties as possible ...
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All,
Can these work if setup diagonally in a room corner? It makes it tough to achieve a lot of distance from the wall due to the angles but it's the only location I've got and I want something that can sound good when I'm moving around the room.
Can these work if setup diagonally in a room corner? It makes it tough to achieve a lot of distance from the wall due to the angles but it's the only location I've got and I want something that can sound good when I'm moving around the room.
the distance to the side walls can be short but not the distance to front wall. Dipoles need to breath but they don't radiate to the sides.
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What if you had at least a couple of inches of absorption on the front wall to reduce its influence?
SL says the following: http://www.linkwitzlab.com/LXmini/Design.htm
"I postulate that if less of the large reflecting surface behind the speakers is illuminated with sound, then the stereo imaging will also be less affected. Thus to be less placement sensitive a loudspeaker should minimize radiation to the rear and be forward directional."
"The rear radiation from the dipole must be attenuated or scattered and diffused in order to minimize the influence of a large reflecting surface behind the dipole radiator. The cylindrical body behind the dipole driver serves that purpose as its dimensions are in the fractional wavelength range of the frequencies concerned. There is a small gap between the magnet and the inside of the pipe. The rear is open and stuffed with absorbent material for very high frequency attenuation."
"At 180 degree in the rear, the speaker has a small bright spot between 1.2 kHz and 6 kHz. I have not noticed anything audible."
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it should be fine if it absorbs all the way down to the range in which the speaker are cardioid, and stops radiating to the back.
Too close to the front wall will have reflections that are too early and make us think it is sound coming from speaker rather than reflection. Dipole is designed to use the back wave, if you want to put it close to a wall then dipole does not suit your use case. Putting dipole away from wall can increase the output too, just like bass in a corner gets increased.
Sorry for resurrecting this, but every now and then i think (well, dream) of building a pair of minis but the price of the official set (with amplification xover etc included) or the learning proccess needed to build a cheaper version of the electronics (starting point is zero) is kind of overwhelming for me....
Now, since i heard of the new minidsp flex, that basically has all the functionality i always dreamed of at a price that i think i could pay, the mini comes to mind even more often....
So the questions for you guys are the following:
First the easy one: do you think the flex is a good match for the mini? will i regret not going for more channels to be able to add subs in the future or bah! i can have a happy life without subs?
Second: what would be a decent 4 channel or even better 2x2 channel amp/s to complete the project? (I am in EU and remember, i want to build this on a budget...) NOTE: i already have a nice Hypex NC252MP 2 channel amp, is it an overkill for the mini or can i use it for this together with something else?
Thank you very much for your comments
Now, since i heard of the new minidsp flex, that basically has all the functionality i always dreamed of at a price that i think i could pay, the mini comes to mind even more often....
So the questions for you guys are the following:
First the easy one: do you think the flex is a good match for the mini? will i regret not going for more channels to be able to add subs in the future or bah! i can have a happy life without subs?
Second: what would be a decent 4 channel or even better 2x2 channel amp/s to complete the project? (I am in EU and remember, i want to build this on a budget...) NOTE: i already have a nice Hypex NC252MP 2 channel amp, is it an overkill for the mini or can i use it for this together with something else?
Thank you very much for your comments
The flex will work but doesn't really add anything above the functionality of the 2x4HD aside from looks. But if you're trying to save money then the 2x4HD is fine.
I used my LXminis for several years without a sub. They do have surprisingly good bass if you don't play too loud. However, after adding a sub I wouldn't go back. Note I don't use the 'official' Linkwitz approved subs. I take the sub-out from my NAD C658 to my sub. I also use the Pass analogue crossover for the LXminis rather than the MiniDSP.
I use a DIY 4-channel amp using Hypex UCD180s which works fine. Before that, an old NAD 6-channel amp which was also fine ...
I'm in the EU too. I ended up buying the pipes kit from magiclx521.com and sourced the drivers elsewhere. That ended up cheaper for me than trying to source the correct pipes piecemeal. That is a few years ago now though.
thanks for your answer bluefuzz.
Well, i would need to use the 2x4HD or flex as preamp/volume control, and the (big for me) disadvantages of the 2x4HD is that it does not have a screen for the volume and input source and that if you need to use the remote (i will need to) you cannot really hide it and it has connections and cables in the front side (where the IR receiver is). Looks in such a small device is secondary for me, but the cabling to the front side.... thats why i kind of discarded the 2x4HD...
I hear what you are saying about the sub.... grrrr i would hate to build all this and after 6 months start thinking about subs.... grrrrrr
DIY amp is not for me, i would love to be able to continue using my current 252NC with something else (a second 252NC?) but dont know if it is better to go for something with less power (?)
Yes the 2x4HD is a bit fugly but perhaps better to start there and then upgrade later to the full 6 channel experince with proper subs if you feel the need. After all the LXminis themselves aren't the most æsthetically elegant speakers anyway when built stock. May as well accept the whole setup is going to look a bit agricultural ... ;-)
As I said, I used an old 6 x 30 W NAD (4 channels bridged) to start with which was plenty loud enough. The UCD 180s are also more than capable.
I have no idea about the flex.
I was also on a budget, thought initially about the 2x4, but decided to go for the 4x10 to keep the door open for a possible future addition with the Linkwitz +2 -woofers.
The 4x10 was a large part of the budget initially, but the drivers I could find at a local HiFi-store, the parts at the build equipment market and the amplifiers as a second hand 7.1 AVR, again to be able to add woofers later.
I'm sure your Hypex is a very good amplifier, and believe it could be mixed with other amplifiers by adjustments of level/gain in the miniDSP.
I was very pleased with the sound quality from start, but after about 1 year decided to add the +2 -woofers. The drivers are expensive, but in my ears clearly worth the extra cost compared to the naked LXmini.
I have had them now for about 4 years, and I'm still vey pleased with the sound. I feel no real need to change the hardware presently and instead concentrate on finding and enjoying the music.
I can agree with those finding these speakers ugly, but I can accept that form follows function. Now I am used to the way they look, and in my ears they sure do deliver, even compared to significantly more expensive speakers.
Give it a try!
I was also on a budget, thought initially about the 2x4, but decided to go for the 4x10 to keep the door open for a possible future addition with the Linkwitz +2 -woofers.
The 4x10 was a large part of the budget initially, but the drivers I could find at a local HiFi-store, the parts at the build equipment market and the amplifiers as a second hand 7.1 AVR, again to be able to add woofers later.
I'm sure your Hypex is a very good amplifier, and believe it could be mixed with other amplifiers by adjustments of level/gain in the miniDSP.
I was very pleased with the sound quality from start, but after about 1 year decided to add the +2 -woofers. The drivers are expensive, but in my ears clearly worth the extra cost compared to the naked LXmini.
I have had them now for about 4 years, and I'm still vey pleased with the sound. I feel no real need to change the hardware presently and instead concentrate on finding and enjoying the music.
I can agree with those finding these speakers ugly, but I can accept that form follows function. Now I am used to the way they look, and in my ears they sure do deliver, even compared to significantly more expensive speakers.
Give it a try!
oh thanks for the tip, the 4x10 is actually decently priced and available.... and no cables on the fascia.... thanks a lot, and also heard your opinion about the subs, i seems to be a consensus that sooner or later one starts thinking about adding them, no surprises there
What is your source? Analog from a DAC? TOSLINK? USB?
I run a LXmini + sub setup with NC252MPs, probably overkill but they are low noise and have plenty of power on tap. I also use a bridged NC252MP on each of my subs.
One of the cheapest ways to implement a LXmini from a DSP / amplifier standpoint is the HifiBerry Beocreate. Power ratings are a bit unclear on the Hifiberry website but from my bench testing higher power channels are 30 W @ 8 ohms and 60 W @ 4 ohms and lower power channels are 30 W @ both 4 and 8 ohms, all ratings are at 0.2% THD+N. Definitely not tons of power but does OK with the LXmini. Hifiberry OS is very easy to use.
As mentioned above, the other REALLY cheap way to do it would be an AVR fed by the HDMI output of a RPi4 running CamillaDSP. If you need something more than a streaming input you can add a digital input HAT or even a 2X4HD for the TOSLINK / analog input.
I also second the recommendation of adding subwoofers, definitely a much better experience with subwoofers.
Michael
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Thank you so much for the reference to the hifiberry amp. Currently I am streaming everything, even my analog sources. In fact I am following closely your camilla thread
But the LXmini is a for me a project in "evaluation stage, still pending approval" and would probably mean start from scratch unless I find a very cheap way to give it a try without selling my current setup. Indeed an used AVR + pi with camilla seems by far the cheapest way to get the 6 channels.