New bedroom setup, punch-list. MiniDSP optimization order of operations?

[5meohd]

I am currently out of town, away from my home where a beautiful brand new, Value Electronics calibrated Sony A90J OLED panel sits waiting.

Before I left for work 2 weeks ago I had spent all of my free time playing around with my new MiniDSP 10x10HD and SVS SB-1000 Pro subs.

I'm hoping to get some confirmation on the basic agenda/plan/punch-list for optimization so that I can get home this weekend and get straight into the good work, rather than spinning my wheels, or doing bad work!

I'm pretty handy with some of the tools, or at least knowledgeable enough to follow the terrific guides floating about places like ASR. I also really like Jeff Mery and Nathan Lively on Youtube. With a basic associates degree in Audio Engineering and a lot of DIY techno production and rave sound system stuff... I have some experience, but not nearly enough!

Part of what brings me to ask for some critique/guidance is that I have such a hodgepodge of equipment (and this will remain, as my budget is spent) that my needs fall outside of what any 1 singular walk-through video covers (to my knowledge). I see this as an opportunity to learn and have fun. I'm just hoping to maximize my 5 days of airbnb life as my excitement builds for the new display setup!

Problems:

1. Use A90Js built in sound as the center channel speaker. A. Has massive internal latency. B. Probably isn't flat and doesn't have the low end extension of my LR.
2. Speaking of LR, I am using powered Genelec 8030a studio monitors. I've loved them for 10 years or more, but I've never properly equalized or integrated them with a subwoofer system.
3. Have 3 potential subs. A. 2 x SVS and 1 x Dayton, maybe 2 SVS is better than the 3? B. tiny bedroom maxed out with furniture, placement is very very limited (and expectations set accordingly).
4. Older AVR, Onkyo TX-nr809 with old Odyssey. Ideally I'd use only the crossovers and only because I can't shut them completely off for the sub.

Goals:

1. Use MSO to optimize bass for 6 listening positions all in bed (left, center, right laying down, left, center, right sitting up).
2. Following Nathan Lively's philosophy I'd like to phase match/integrate the crossover between subwoofer system and mains, as in if the Onkyo imposes a 80Hz crossover electronically, what filters and delays can I add in the MiniDSP to have the actual acoustic crossover match/sum.
3. Have time/phase alignment as accurate as possible with the mess/mix of gear. The TV as center channel ads something like 13ms.
4. Equalize the L, C, R, but not in a single listening position (head in a vice) manor.. more of a "flatten the speaker and let the room be the room above X frequency band".

I know for some people this would be a very strait forward process. And I'm hoping to lean on that! For me its a little overwhelming, especially coming from this mixture of home theater vs studio vs live sound system. I think all 3 fields can occasionally go too far in assuming what works for others doesn't apply, and then I also respect that room size is very much fundamental to the approach. For instance.. I don't see how Nathan's live sound approach to electronic vs acoustic crossovers would NOT apply to home theater, yet I don't see people discussing that very often.

At time of writing I'm honestly not sure what step one is.

Measure TV as speaker in driveway? find its free-field frequency response and also the actual latency value? Look at its natural LF roll-off to determine bass management xover setting?

Then repeat this with the Genelecs?

Then repeat with the 3 subs? Or should the subs just be placed in the room from the start since they interact with the room so much that a free field measurement isn't of much help?

If anyone has read this far, thanks!

Some links for those who are unfamiliar with Nathan or Jeff's content:

 

[GD Fan]

I'm no expert, but it seems like eliminating the TV from the audio portion of the equation might simplify things quite a bit and actually improve the audio fidelity, would it not?

 

[5meohd]

I'm no expert, but it seems like eliminating the TV from the audio portion of the equation might simplify things quite a bit and actually improve the audio fidelity, would it not?

Ah. Fair question. In this case, no. The A90J is specifically designed to take a speaker level input and produce a pretty competent sound. I've listened to it for a while and for a bedroom center channel it's quite remarkable how well it does for people like me that are sensitive to speaker localization. I don't care how laser aligned and tilted the speaker is I can always tell that it's coming from above or below the screen and it really distracts me from the film. Whereas a bumpy freq response, as long as it's not too egregiously peaky, isn't nearly as distracting.

I think the already competent A90J sound can be improved even further by hipassing and doing some subtractive eq. But I want to do those things with the best approach and I'm curious for opinions on what that may be.

 

[Vintagefan]

Screen against the wall (including centre speaker)and probably bed also against opposite wall: basic problem.
centre speaker using other dsp versus surround, next problem…. Delays not only from different speakers but also different processing delays.
Certainly not the ideal parameters for creating a ‘listening hot spot’.
BTW, the internal speaker system of your tv-set is normally optimised for giving allready a psycho-acoustically sense of stereo from 1 spot what includes delays and phase shifts of the array of speakers involved.( thus far from optimal for being used as a centre channel)

 

[Karu]

Can’t you feed the TV centre speaker in from the AVR and set delays for other channels to match the latencies?

 

[phoenixdogfan]

When I was looking at buying an OLED, I was looking a the Sony A90J precisely b/c its internal speaker could be used as a center. If I remember rightly, that speaker can be fed from an external amp, so it should be possible to sync all your speakers. If your receiver/amp has Dirac it should facilitate this. And there should also be some PEQ in your receiver to delay your L-R, Center, and Subs to eliminate latency.

Getting the correct anechoic EQ for the A90J could be an issue. Maybe going out the the driveway with a laptop running REW, a miniDSP Umik 1, and a Aiyima A07 with a long extension cord is the answer.

It will be interesting to see what you come up with. I hope you keep us posted and show measurements as it will help those trying to do many of the same things you are.

 

[Jim Shaw]

I am currently out of town, away from my home where a beautiful brand new, Value Electronics calibrated Sony A90J OLED panel sits waiting.

What is your exact address, security arrangements, and when you will return home? (asking for a friend)

 

[walrashish]

I have a Sony A8H running as my powered center channel, and I cannot emphasize enough the need to measure the TV in its installed space, since it has a major reflective element off the back wall. Free-air measurements will be less useful, since you're equalizing a partial dipole.

This is one place where it can be useful to utilize the AVR's built-in REO software. I acknowledge that my following setup list might make me an unreliable narrator, but I run the A8H in center with KEF LS50s L/R and a B&W ASW610 sub in a 3.1 arrangement, EQ'd through Audyseey on my Marantz NR1710. Personally, I think it sounds good for my purposes (and, critically, smooth between the TV and KEFs). I know that this particular group of equipment is a bit ASR-anathema.

Anyway, Audyssey places the TV about 20 feet further from the L/R channels due to the amp latency. I know that you can set delays with REW, but if your AVR has an auto-EQ program, you could always let it set the delays instead, and then turn off any EQ and use the MiniDSP to do proper room correction instead. If your A90J is anything like my A8H, there's a big treble spike at 6K and an insane breakup mode at 20K that you'll want to even out.