New Børresen M6 flagship speakers

[Martin]

There are a lot of serious loudspeaker brands which use "better cables" in there top line speakers that doesn't destroy the performance of that speaker even if it is none sense.

Von Schweikert is one such company. Years ago Albert decided to get into the very lucrative cable business and founded MasterBuilt Audio Cables. The cables are designed and fabricated by a subsidiary of Delphi Aerospace using technology developed for the US space program. It makes sense that wire developed to send microvolt signals over long runs in very demanding environments with life or death consequences has to be good wire. Whether that level of engineering is required for audio signals is debatable. They cost a pretty penny and have garnered their fair share of rave audiophile reviews. The wire is used internally in Von Schweikert speakers with a commensurate increase in price.

I loved my VR-4 Gen III HSE speakers and I love my current VR-5 Anniversary speakers just as much. I'll probably never have the budget to buy Von Schweikert's newest speakers but if I did, I would not hesitate to do so based upon past listening experiences.

Just an observation.

Martin

 

[Killingbeans]

Whether that level of engineering is required for audio signals is debatable.

Not really. But people do anyway.

 

[Pearljam5000]

For around the same price I'd rather get the Magico M9 anyways, It will destroy it for sure

 

[Axo1989]

That's the only part I'm personally bashing. The silly voodoo components and the "treatments".

The design aspects that really make a difference have hopefully been allocated just as many resources as the nonsense.

Even if they haven't, the speaker probably sounds perfectly fine to most people. It's not difficult to design a speaker that impresses immensely in an isolated listening session. The hard part is to design something that doesn't fall apart when directly A/B compared to something vastly better.

Good reviews? Most reviewers will gladly accept any product that keeps the ad revenue flowing, and the higher the price tag, the more likely it is to be described as the best thing since shredded cheese, regardless of performance.

It's possibly a good speaker, but the haphazard embrace of garbage pseudo science makes my respect for their skills shrivel to nothing.

I think the esoteric engineering and any consequent grandiose claims help make up the attempt to concoct a unique selling proposition (compared to other very expensive offerings). And even to set up aspirations: my speakers don't have Tesla coils, etc, maybe I'm missing out and should increase my speaker budget 10-20x would be the desired reaction. But yes for that budget I would also prefer those Magicos.

 

[MoreWatts]

Given the charlatans from Audio Group Denmark running the demos I would not have put it past them to do so. Their prices are stratospheric.

'Oh, but how expensive can Audio Group Denmark possibly be?" I posted this in the 'Amir's 2023 Pacific Audio Fest Day 2 Report' thread, but I'll repost here. All the Borresen, Aavik and Ansuz stuff is theirs.

@amirm When I was in this booth the day before, they only played the smaller Børresen speakers. This time I got to listen to the M6. This is a $550,000 speaker (not a typo)! Post #15 photos.

Enjoy The Music listed the prices of the equipment in the Borresen M6 speakers room.

"The source was the Aavik S-580 Streamer ($25,200), feeding the Aavik D-580 DAC ($25,200) – the D880 DAC is still in development, but I heard a proto when I was in Denmark last January. Electronics included the Aavik C-880 ($70,000) Control Amplifier, in turn feeding the Aavik P-880non-switching, pure class A, 200 Wpc integrated amplifier ($70,000), driving drive the breathtakingly gorgeous looking – and sounding – Børresen M6 loudspeakers ($550,000/pr).

All Ansuz power products, including all cables, power distribution, networking devices, noise control, and isolation products, were from their flagship Gold Signature series and included the following. One Mainz8 Power Distributor ($64,000), one Ansuz PowerSwitch ($23,000), one Ansuz PowerBox to provide power to all their active cables ($23,000), eight Ansuz Mainz Power Cables ($68,000 – each, or $544,000!), one Ansuz Digitalz BNC Cable ($27,000), two Ansuz Digitalz LAN Cables ($12,400 – each, or $24,800), two pair of Ansuz Signalz Analog Cables ($51,000 a pair, or $102,000), and one pair of Ansuz Speaker Cables ($162,000/5 Meter pair).

There's also two Ansuz three-shelf Titanium Racks ($53,100 each, or $159,300), twenty Ansuz Z2S Darkz Resonance Control devices ($4,000 each, or $80,000), ten Ansuz T2S Darkz Resonance Control Cable Lifters ($1,700 each, or $17,000), thirteen Ansuz Sortz RF Noise Controls for RCA and BNC ($1,600 each, or $20,800), and five Ansuz Sortz RF Noise Control for USB and LAN ($2,100 each, or $10,500). Just in case you weren't keeping track, This MEGA system just squeaks in under two million bucks, at $1,997,800!"

The integrated amp ($70K) and speakers ($550K) are only 31% of the total cost. This is how you make half-million dollar speakers seem reasonably priced.

So much for the AXPONA 2023 Million Dollar System. Estelon speakers were only $269K.

I reposted the above and added this in the Extreme Snake Oil thread a bit later:

Some totals (all values are thousands of dollars = K)

Control (?) amp + integrated (?) amp = 70 + 70 = $140K
Speakers = 550K
Streamer + DAC: ~25 x 2 = 51K
Racks, titanium: ~53 x 3 = 160K
Power conditioning: 64+23+23 = 110K
Interconnect cables: 27+~25+102 = 154K
Speaker cables: 162K
Power cords: 68 x 8 = 544K
Hockey pucks: 4K x 20 = 80K
Cable lifters: 1.7K x 10 = 17K
Input plug caps: (1.6K x 13) + (2.1K x 5) = ~31K
What, no official ‘ground-box’ device, with associated cables? There’s gonna be a hum…. (and a $ale$ opportunity missed).

For frame of reference: The most expensive Rolls Royce Motor Car has a base price of $538K. Do you want the top of the line Rolls, or 8 power cords?

That's how expensive the charlatans at Audio Group Denmark can be!

 

[RayDunzl]

Do you want the top of the line Rolls, or 8 power cords?

I have at least eight power cords already.

 

[Short38]

I hope to learn more about membrane technology in the future and how to pronounce the name of the manufacturer.

 

[bodhi]

I think the esoteric engineering and any consequent grandiose claims help make up the attempt to concoct a unique selling proposition (compared to other very expensive offerings). And even to set up aspirations: my speakers don't have Tesla coils, etc, maybe I'm missing out and should increase my speaker budget 10-20x would be the desired reaction.

Of course. Even the billionaires don't like to hear in plain words that they are being ripped off. They need that mumbo jumbo to explain what they bought and what the less fortunate millionaires and other plebs are not allowed to have.

Anyways if the point of diminishing returns is located in Greenwich these kind of speakers are located somewhere in Alpha Centauri. I find it utterly pointless do discuss if one would rather pick some Magico or these for their 30m2 listening room. About the same as discussing would you rather treat your room with stacks of 20 or 100€ bills. Yeah, I guess I would "take" the stacks with larger bills but both are still unreasonable options from sound reproduction standpoint. It's just spending as much money as possible to be able to say you spent that money.

 

[Purité Audio]

Yup they are aimed squarely at the ‘more money than sense’ crowd.
Keith

 

[Pearljam5000]

Of course. Even the billionaires don't like to hear in plain words that they are being ripped off. They need that mumbo jumbo to explain what they bought and what the less fortunate millionaires and other plebs are not allowed to have.

Anyways if the point of diminishing returns is located in Greenwich these kind of speakers are located somewhere in Alpha Centauri. I find it utterly pointless do discuss if one would rather pick some Magico or these for their 30m2 listening room. About the same as discussing would you rather treat your room with stacks of 20 or 100€ bills. Yeah, I guess I would "take" the stacks with larger bills but both are still unreasonable options from sound reproduction standpoint. It's just spending as much money as possible to be able to say you spent that money.

I'd buy the M9 for my 3 meteres x4 meters room if I had the $$$

 

[Axo1989]

Of course. Even the billionaires don't like to hear in plain words that they are being ripped off. They need that mumbo jumbo to explain what they bought and what the less fortunate millionaires and other plebs are not allowed to have.

Anyways if the point of diminishing returns is located in Greenwich these kind of speakers are located somewhere in Alpha Centauri. I find it utterly pointless do discuss if one would rather pick some Magico or these for their 30m2 listening room. About the same as discussing would you rather treat your room with stacks of 20 or 100€ bills. Yeah, I guess I would "take" the stacks with larger bills but both are still unreasonable options from sound reproduction standpoint. It's just spending as much money as possible to be able to say you spent that money.

I'd buy the M9 for my 3 meteres x4 meters room if I had the $$$

Haha, I was going to respond by saying "for f*cks sake, who the f*ck is suggesting squeezing them into that f*cking space?" but you've messed up my move now.

 

[bodhi]

I'd buy the M9 for my 3 meteres x4 meters room if I had the $$$

Sure. And ask some kid and he tells you he would buy his own fire truck and a candy store. Not very interesting statement.

If you had that kind of money and so much more it really doesn't matter one way or another then maybe. It's the same thing as to say you wouldn't object if magical fairy would make the Magicos appear in your listening room.

The people who are actually buying these things have a listening room that fits the aforementioned fire truck (and maybe the candy store as well). The room, decorations and the house they are in already cost so much that the speakers are just an afterthought. And you really need a beefy speakers there or the listening experience is strictly much worse than what poor people have in their entry level mansions with some regular Joe Salons or Blades.

 

[Purité Audio]

I'd buy the M9 for my 3 meteres x4 meters room if I had the $$$

You would get objectively better sound by building a properly designed room.
Keith

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

This M6 speaker and its thread on ASR no less, got me thinking.. Of course the thread is from the usual suspect .. aka Rabble rouser aka @Pearljam5000 ...

An interesting marketing strategy that could be relatively new is, that the price of an item seems to be the driver of sales not superiority, to the competition in whatever objective metrics you choose The rice itself intone superiority. Seems to be a feature of the Luxury Market. Those versed in marketing will tell me more .. or correct me...

Anyhow, there we have a speaker nobody on the thread knows much about ... because the manufacturer doesn't feel the need to provide much more than ... thin air ... It is beside the point that, we, on this Forum/thread are not the target market/audience but .. here we are discussing a product that not one of us will ever buy.. even if they had the resources! Those who frequent ASR shan't buy this thing. They know enough to infer that complement of drivers can't do what the manufacturer is trying to intone. They, the ASR people, are fully cognizant of the fact that this most likely is a poor performing speaker... at best a “meh” speaker. Does anyone believe this M6, is better than a Blade? Let alone a Salon 2, a Neuman KH 420 or a Genelec 8361? Or even to a Revel F208..

SERIOUSLY??? NO

NO!!
Rant and OT.

I lament the poor reliability and low-quality engineering in most of those expensive items. It could have been an opportunity to create flagships. I believe the manufacturer understands that and make no effort to make these better, because they make a lot more money off this lack of reliability and rely on the mystique of the marque .. Even a prestige of expensive maintenance and operation…on them being so bad ... Many. most modern Mercedes-Benz cars are poorly engineered. There ! I said it ! These are utterly unreliable... this can be said of most BMW, Audi, etc… These are poor when it comes to reliability, their objective performance is matched or surpassed by Japanese cars.. across the board... This is not endemic to German Luxury cars ... Most Italian sportscar are unreliable, take most any Ferrari. They perform to the fullest only after a few expensive trips to the repair shop. Ask any sincere owner and they’ll tell you… Same with Maserati, Lamborghini.. if you switch countries and consider British (by name perhaps) sports automobile, say a Jaguar … (Noooooo!!)..

Yet these continue to sell at a premium, I don’t think churning out mediocre products is a sustainable business strategy: it will catch up with you. We are in a Market economy, and competitors are bound to emerge. e,g. On the Luxury side, any Lexus, is likely a better car, than its equivalent current Mercedes; meanwhile the Chinese auto industry is vibrant… They will come and , yes, with luxury vehicle as well..
End of rant and OT.

On the Audio side we already know the HEA is a pile of BS. We have proof. We know the Emperor has no clothes.

I would suggest to @pearljam to come up with products that are not screaming money grabs for this kind of posts. These do not advance our understanding or define the SOTA… OTOH products such as the Genelec 8331, are worthy of discussions. Heck! Even Magico, from the few (rare) measurements I have seen, seem to be very good .. That expensive, slim thing, about $600,000 (enough for a complete 7.4 system with all 8381 + 4 Genelec Subs + Trinnov Processor + Room treatment and enough left over for a complete house !!!!!! ) is not worth the time we are spending on it…

Peace.

 

[thewas]

You would get objectively better sound by building a properly designed room.
Keith

For that money he could even have good musicians performing live at his place for many years of weekends.

 

[Cadguy]

For around the same price I'd rather get the Magico M9 anyways, It will destroy it for sure View attachment 312948

For sure, the Magico M9 crushes the Borresen. Seriously, if you dropped the M9 on the puny M6 it would flatten it and the Magico would be unscathed.

 

[Pearljam5000]

For sure, the Magico M9 crushes the Borresen. Seriously, if you dropped the M9 on the puny M6 it would flatten it and the Magico would be unscathed.

M9 with M6

 

[fpitas]

A chip off the old block!