New audio analyzer from Neurochrome

[tomchr]

The AP software uses .NET. When a Windoze update updated .NET a few years back, the AP software broke. The official AP solution to this is to uninstall that particular update, which now leaves you with a PC with security holes, or to pay $4k for an updated version of the AP software. I'm not 100 % sure, but I think now they want you to subscribe to the software too.

So after paying them what would be a solid downpayment on a house in many parts of North America for the analyzer, they stick you with abandonware. That's inexcusable.

Now, don't get me wrong. The AP software is very good (in my view and experience). And AP keeps adding features to it. They deserve to get paid for that work. I'm not asking them to give me the new features for free. What I am asking is that they update the version of the software that came with the analyzer when I bought it so it can run on Windoze 11 (and 2022+ versions of Windoze 10). But so far, they've told me to go pack sand.

Tom

 

[PristineSound]

I was extremely close to buying AP. I took two for a trial run. The 555 (tried a few years ago) and 516B (sometime last year). Despite their extreme subscription pricing structure, I had cash in hand for the 516B. But my experience was abysmal. I had issues with both that put me off. Not to mention the file sizes are HUGE. Even for a few sets of rather standard measurements, my file sizes were 300mb+. And the software kept shutting down on its own despite lots of troubleshooting.

I sent the 555 and the 516 back and decided to just stick with the more limited QuantAsylum QA402. It’s more limited but the experience is MILES better than the AP experience.

I’m keen on this Neurochrome. I’ll definitely check it out.

If the Neurochrome performs as the initial published spec and is reliable, it's a game changer for so many, especially the independent repair shops. Many of these independent repair shops are still buying 30-40 year old used audio analyzers.

I would so buy one myself, but for occasional hobby use, the Cosmos will do just fine.

 

[PristineSound]

What I am asking is that they update the version of the software that came with the analyzer when I bought it so it can run on Windoze 11 (and 2022+ versions of Windoze 10). But so far, they've told me to go pack sand.

Tom, sometimes that is exactly how competitions are born. . . consumers being treated poorly, and one of them decided that they can do better.

The beauty of free enterprise and capitalism!

 

[pma]

Well put.

Everybody knows the E1DA/Cosmos DAC/ADC. Have you ever worked with them? I have. They require about $150 worth of cables, adapters, power banks, and doodads to work. There is no protection on the I/Os. None. You hook it up wrong and *poof* there goes your DAC/ADC and possibly the PC behind it. The ADC has a variable input impedance, which is a no-no in the test & measurement world.

We're obviously hoping to reach the performance of the Cosmos, but we may stop a tad short. We'd rather have a piece of rugged test gear than the last picoBell of THD. Sorry if that ruffles any feathers here.

Tom

I tend to disagree, and I have been using E1DA Cosmos since June 2022. Cables? Standard ones that I have a plenty in my bookshelves. Needed to build several resistive dividers to cover necessary ranges of voltage. Like $20? The only further component I need to use time after time is my audiobuffer with 100kohm input impedance. We made a direct comparison with QA403 and with the Cosmos I get both lower noise and distortion. So, what is the problem? The only problem is it needs a bit qualified user to utilize its possibilities.

 

[tomchr]

The benefit of Tom's audio analyzer is that it is software agnostic.

As it is now, the analyzer will run with any software that can talk to a sound card. So REW, ARTA, Holm Impulse (is that still a thing?), Fuzzmeasure, etc. It'll run on Mac, Windoze, linux. We'll provide a control panel software for it that'll work on those three platforms. The software will allow you to set the input/output ranges, select the signal routing, etc.

However, if you want auto-ranging to work well, you'll need to use some dedicated software. I was hoping that John Mulcahey (who writes REW) would be interested, but he wasn't. So I'm exploring other options. Virtins Multi-Instrument is one possibility, but there are others. I hear the leaning curve on Virtins MI is a bit steep but that it's very good once you get past the steep part.

To be clear, features like auto-ranging will work without the custom software, but unless the software has some knowledge of which range has been selected and how that moves the 0 dBFS reference you won't know the voltage that's being measured. All you'll know is that it's some number of dBFS. This could be good enough for measuring THD - in fact that's how REW works if you don't calibrate it - but it isn't good enough for a professional grade analyzer.

We will have open standards and protocols, so there is always the option that someone could write the software for the analyzer. We'll also have a command-line interface for use with automated testing.

Great job Tom, when can we expect this product to be available for purchase?

I'm reasonably optimistic that I'll open up for orders before the end of this year.

Tom, sometimes that is exactly how competitions are born. . . consumers being treated poorly, and one of them decided that they can do better.

Yep. I wouldn't mind being a Gale of Creative Destruction, to borrow a business school term.

Tom

 

[tomchr]

I tend to disagree, and I have been using E1DA Cosmos since June 2022. Cables? Standard ones that I have a plenty in my bookshelves.

Really? I had no 2.5 mm TRRS on my bookshelf. To get XLR output from the DAC, I had to go 2.5 mm TRRS -> 4-pin XLR -> 2x 3-pin XLR. That was over $50 in adapters. At least the ADC has XLR input.

That said, there is absolutely no doubt that the Cosmos ADC/DAC provide stellar performance. In the right hands you can measure the grass grow with those. But there's also no input protection, so you do run the risk of blowing them up if you're not careful. Then again, they're affordable enough that you can just buy another one if that happens to you.

I don't think the NAx1 will have any significant impact on Cosmos sales. We're going after completely different market segments.

Tom

 

[Buckeye Amps]

When a venture capital firm buys a company, it tends to go from a balanced customer to profit focus into a more profit only focus. A la AP.

 

[tomchr]

Yep. Buy it. Milk it. Toss it. NEXT!!

Tom

 

[PristineSound]

Yep. Buy it. Milk it. Toss it. NEXT!!

Tom

That is just so sad. But the good news is capitalism works both ways, Neurochrome to the rescue

 

[pma]

Really? I had no 2.5 mm TRRS on my bookshelf.

I am not that silly to use that 2.5mm TRSS. It would be only good to short power amp output. If you read my post better, you would understand I made my set of dividers. XLR to XLR, balanced. Shall I post photos or what? It is so easy to make such dividers. I am always curious why people want to BUY adapters. I think you were skilled enough to make it yourself.

And should not this be in a vendor's thread? You are about to make business with your analyzers, aren't you? Is it OK and professional for you to badmouth competition (AP)?

 

[tomchr]

What are you trying to get from the combativeness?

Nobody here is arguing that it is impossible to use the Cosmos products for audio measurements. I am arguing that they're not particularly convenient to use in that application because of the choice of connectors and such.

The NAx1 will use industry standard connectors with industry standard impedances. The I/Os are also protected against accidental over-voltage, short circuit, ESD, etc.

Tom

 

[Buckeye Amps]

Is it OK and professional for you to badmouth competition (AP)?

He doesn't need to, I'll happily do it for him.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

Also, Tom didn't start this thread so not sure why you are asking him about where it should have been posted.

 

[tomchr]

All I did was to tell the story of when the software for my APx555 broke and what AP's response was. I fail to see how that's badmouthing. Am I as a consumer of AP products not allowed to talk about my experience using those products? How are we supposed to hold manufactures accountable for their actions if we aren't allowed to even talk about them?

Tom

 

[pma]

Also, Tom didn't start this thread so not sure why you are asking him about where it should have been posted.

That’s correct. However, ASR serves as an advertising platform to some members and it is the fact.

 

[Hipocrates]

I am not that silly to use that 2.5mm TRSS. It would be only good to short power amp output. If you read my post better, you would understand I made my set of dividers. XLR to XLR, balanced. Shall I post photos or what? It is so easy to make such dividers. I am always curious why people want to BUY adapters. I think you were skilled enough to make it yourself.

And should not this be in a vendor's thread? You are about to make business with your analyzers, aren't you? Is it OK and professional for you to badmouth competition (AP)?

I created the thread because I find extremely cool that a new option for audioanalyzer is on the horizon, have a problem with that? Report it.
Is already established that the product in question is for business settings, you are experienced enough to know the difference. Don't like it? Deal with it.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

That’s correct. However, ASR serves as an advertising platform to some members and it is the fact.

Then if you are that concerned you should ask a Mod to move the thread. But again, Tom didn't create the thread so not his fault if you think it is in the wrong sub forum.

 

[PristineSound]

And should not this be in a vendor's thread? You are about to make business with your analyzers, aren't you? Is it OK and professional for you to badmouth competition (AP)?

Tom didn't start this thread, someone else did, he is just interacting with the community who may be interested in his product.

Nor is he bad mouthing anyone, at least that is not what I saw, he is simply stating the short comings of both the AP and the Cosmos, and his poor experience with those products. And you know what? I agree with him. More importantly, he already stated he does not expect the casual hobbyist to buy this product, nor was that his intentions, so he is not competing with Cosmos.

I have the grade 1 Cosmos, there are limitations to it, you can only measure amp with so much power before you need an attenuator, there aren't much fault protections, etc.

And he is producing a product that fills a void in the market. This is all something to celebrate.

 

[Salt]

After some excursions to whatsoever, as usual, some questions:
As this 'item' is software agnostic, and @pkane develops some AP- similar measurement routine with his Multitone Analyzer, what about this combination?

 

[tomchr]

This? https://distortaudio.org/multitone.html

Sadly, it appears to be Windoze-only.

Tom