New audio analyzer from Neurochrome

[Rja4000]

Following the idea of Quality control, a software that allows customization and advanced automation would be the logical choice.

So something like Audio Precision APx 500 Flex or Virtins Multi Instrument makes the most sense indeed (there are others), as they already have automation API and advanced functionalities.

 

[amirm]

So the advantage and your extra $$$ boils down to that illusive "better than" -130dBc THD as in "total harmonic distortion" - all the harmonics to be counted and is the dBc carrier at FSD?

The main advantage is auto-scalar with protection in the front-end. You can't get that out of an audio interface. It also has volt meter which is critical for measuring power amplifiers. All integrated into one device. And if it meets the state specs, it should be able to measure state of the art hardware.

 

[Rja4000]

The main advantage is auto-scalar with protection in the front-end. You can't get that out of an audio interface. It also has volt meter which is critical for measuring power amplifiers. All integrated into one device. And if it meets the state specs, it should be able to measure state of the art hardware.

That's the point exactly:
The main benefit vs an audio interface with some gimmicks as I'm using is NOT raw performance - with some attention, both may, most probably, reach the same level - but automation, facility to build a time efficient workflow for repetitive and consistent measurements, in a fool-proof way.

Exactly the benefit of the AP analyzer.
For a fraction of the price.

 

[tomchr]

Yes, but that means you are only limited at 1kHz and 10kHz with cosmos apu. It's fine, but you can't do a frequency sweep.

You can't with the AP either.

Sure. You can make a THD+N vs frequency or level sweep with the notch filter (aka. "precision sine analyzer") enabled, but it's THD+N. Not THD. You can get the AP to plot THD vs frequency but as far as I can tell only with the chirp analyzer. And you can't enable the precision sine analyzer with the chirp, so you're stuck at the THD of its built-in ADC, which is good, but not the -148 dBc that you paid $40k for.

From what if sounds like, but I will let @tomchr confirm, he is trying to get a customized version that can do what the AP software can do, and it will be made specifically for this analyzer, either as additional cost or as part of the purchase.

Yes. I'll have software for it. I hope to be able to bake the price of the software into the cost of the analyzer, even if it means nudging the cost of the analyzer up a bit.

So he is intending for his customers to use somebody else’s analyzer software

Not entirely. I am giving you the option to use whichever software you like. That'll get you basically everything except auto-ranging on the I/Os. For the full functionality you'll need to use the software that I'll provide.

REW the author is John Mulcahy, so Neurochrome should change the name from “analyzer” to “high performance to audio interface” to avoid any further confusion in my opinion …

No I shouldn't. Because what I offer is not an audio interface. It's an audio analyzer. It has built-in attenuators/amplifiers to scale the I/Os properly. It also offers protection against over-voltage on the analog I/Os. It may work like a sound card, but marketing it as a sound card would cause even more confusion.

good luck with the EULA! and getting permission to bundle in a commercial product.

I've already talked to John. Leave that to us instead of creating drama here, please.

Virtins Multi-instrument is another option.

Multi-Instrument, a powerful multi-function virtual instrument software - Virtins Technology

www.virtins.com

Virtins is Windoze-only, sadly.

illusive "better than"

What I have right now is a working prototype that's good enough for me to spend $5k for a booth at Axpona, travel, etc. to demo it. I'm trying my best not to over-promise and under-deliver. Please respect that.

So let's see the hard numbers when its all done.

Yeah. Let's.

Apx555 now starts at $40k!

Yep! And by the time you add the options I offer as standard in the NAx1, you're up to $58k. The NAx1 supports I2S and PDM standard. Those two options add $9570 and $6650, respectively, to the $40k analyzer. So for the price of the options alone you can buy about three NAx1s... Tradeoffs, tradeoffs. And AP doesn't do I2C. We do.

Tom

 

[tomchr]

Following the idea of Quality control, a software that allows customization and advanced automation would be the logical choice.

We'll make the protocol available so you can talk to the NAx1 via libusb or a command line tool. It should be pretty trivial to get python or Matlab to talk to it.

So something like Audio Precision APx 500 Flex or Virtins Multi Instrument makes the most sense indeed (there are others), as they already have automation API and advanced functionalities.

The APx500 FLEX will talk to the NAx1. That's how I test it. I have an APx555 so I can test the analyzer both against the 555 and also against itself using the AP software.

The AP software won't be able to do the auto-ranging, though. That you'll need our custom software for unless we come up with something clever and do the auto-ranging in hardware. But if we do auto-ranging in hardware the software on the host computer needs to be made aware of the range switching or be intelligent enough to throw that audio frame away and start over as there will be a glitch when the range is changed.

Tom

 

[tomchr]

That's the point exactly:
The main benefit vs an audio interface with some gimmicks as I'm using is NOT raw performance - with some attention, both may, most probably, reach the same level - but automation, facility to build a time efficient workflow for repetitive and consistent measurements, in a fool-proof way.

Exactly the benefit of the AP analyzer.
For a fraction of the price.

Well put.

Everybody knows the E1DA/Cosmos DAC/ADC. Have you ever worked with them? I have. They require about $150 worth of cables, adapters, power banks, and doodads to work. There is no protection on the I/Os. None. You hook it up wrong and *poof* there goes your DAC/ADC and possibly the PC behind it. The ADC has a variable input impedance, which is a no-no in the test & measurement world.

We're obviously hoping to reach the performance of the Cosmos, but we may stop a tad short. We'd rather have a piece of rugged test gear than the last picoBell of THD. Sorry if that ruffles any feathers here.

Tom

 

[PristineSound]

It's an audio analyzer. It has built-in attenuators/amplifiers to scale the I/Os properly. It also offers protection against over-voltage on the analog I/Os.

The attenuation is huge. While there is a scaler/buffer/preamp available for the cosmos, attenuation isn't an option; if you decide to use the XLR to measure amplifiers, you have to manually attenuate it. And you also have to attenuate it even if your are measuring high power amps using the 2.5mm TRRS input, because it's max voltage input is 48v (if I remember correctly, I haven't touched my cosmos in couple of years).

If this bad boy is indeed 130dB, I think we got ourselves a winner, albeit as a hobbyist, I can't spend this kind of money on it and I am doubtful I will be able to find it on the user market within the next 5 years. I be shocked if you can even maintain stock on this.

 

[tomchr]

If this bad boy is indeed 130dB, I think we got ourselves a winner, albeit as a hobbyist, I can't spend this kind of money on it and I am doubtful I will be able to find it on the user market within the next 5 years. I be shocked if you can even maintain stock on this.

Yeah. We'll lose many of the hobbyists. That's a bit unfortunate given my background, but the more I looked at this, the more I realized I had to do it. It's been well received at Axpona so far as well.

Tom

 

[PristineSound]

but the more I looked at this, the more I realized I had to do it.

100% Tom. There is a huge gap in the market and so many have been waiting for someone to do this for so long, I couldn't be happier that "one of our own" is doing it.

Cheering you on from the sidelines.

 

[HpW]

...but the more I looked at this, the more I realized I had to do it.

Tom

You mean like this

 

[tomchr]

Nah. I think the market made me do it.

Tom

 

[morillon]

"High-end equipment" requires a margin. It's the Chinese DACs that are "dancing" with ASR...

it's not that interesting because:
"Asr" will be measured them here... hehe

and anyway, they use the same protocols, AP555 bench for their development, etc., in anticipation.
So for a long time now... they are all "very good."
So what's the point? ;-)

(These DACs, at the top of the measurement range, on the other hand, become powerful generators for our testing purposes... ;-)
)

As a reminder, the arrival of the Adept minidsp, which allows for many measurements with a significant margin on standard line input levels and standard impedances... at a very low cost... with software like Multitone, Virtins, or REW... even automated test sequences, etc.

;-)

 

[morillon]

Just a reminder of the kind of irony for those who truly understand the technical needs/needs/limitations of their hardware solutions: there are, shall we say, surprising low-cost approaches... like RME, Adept, Cosmos, etc.

And those "Chinese -123dB" DACs as a source.


;-)
But if more affordable/capable "pro" solutions come onto the market... that's great!
;-)

 

[tomchr]

The Chinese DAC/ADCs are not my competition. And, frankly, cash-strapped hobbyists aren't my customers either. I'm happy to sell to anyone with money, but I doubt I'll see significant volume from the hobbyists. That's a bit unfortunate, but such is life. I'm at peace with it. My customers are businesses and individuals who expect things to just work when plugged in and who expect the equipment to be able to handle some abuse.

If I was making a high-end sound card, my pricing would have to be different and I'd be competing with RME. And, frankly, I would probably not enter that market because of those reasons.

Tom