New 28-bit DAC coming out.

[popej]

Similar concept is used in Cirrus Logic chips with some measurable downsides:

On the Distortion of Cirrus Logic CS431xx-Based Devices: A Comparative Review

TL;DR / Changelog [5/20/25] Eleven DAC/HP amp combo devices adopting either the Cirrus Logic CS43131 or CS43198 were tested, and seven of them were found produce the distortion dubbed a "Cirrus hump." Based on measurements from multiple sources (including this review), a list of...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Till now we do not have any measurements, that would prove that the DAC fulfill all the claims. Nearly 300 posts and no reliable information.

 

[pkane]

It takes only 1 song (from a nicely burned in D-1 unit)

I'm glad you mentioned that a nice burn-in is required (100 hours?). It makes it really easy to ignore everything that follows.

 

[thcdru2k]

Interesting. I assume this DAC would benefit more so with a fully treated room and a 2.0 full range setup? I imagine you would not want to use DSP/room correction upstream?

 

[Soniclife]

Real science has to be done in a controlled way to be meaningful. If you are at home testing DACs and not doing it in a proper double blind, volume output matched way the results you are getting are worthless and not scientific. This "do you own research" thing people throw around is only meaningful when the research is done correctly. I would love to see the results of proper double blind testing on this DAC or any others people claim are worth their higher price or more complicated design.

Very well put, and something that needs repeating multiple times a day here sadly.

 

[RandomEar]

Interesting. I assume this DAC would benefit more so with a fully treated room and a 2.0 full range setup?

Why?

I imagine you would not want to use DSP/room correction upstream?

In most cases, room correction (+ room treatment) is by far the biggest sound improvement you can add to your system. Room correction is easier to do for many users who can't re-arrange their whole house just for some slightly better sub placement. Why would you not want room correction upstream - that is, in the digital domain - on this DAC?

 

[egellings]

I can't imagine why you would need that many bits for home playback use.

 

[Everett T]

Why?


In most cases, room correction (+ room treatment) is by far the biggest sound improvement you can add to your system. Room correction is easier to do for many users who can't re-arrange their whole house just for some slightly better sub placement. Why would you not want room correction upstream - that is, in the digital domain - on this DAC?

For the crowd that purchases this DAC for residential usage, specifically the audiophool crowd wouldn't for 1) they don't like DSP or RC, for the most part, and 2) the same group wouldn't want the signal converted to a lower sampling rate for RC.

I definitely don't agree with that but I believe the so called purist would consider it a sin, lol.

 

[thcdru2k]

Why?


In most cases, room correction (+ room treatment) is by far the biggest sound improvement you can add to your system. Room correction is easier to do for many users who can't re-arrange their whole house just for some slightly better sub placement. Why would you not want room correction upstream - that is, in the digital domain - on this DAC?

I agree but with a $12,000 DAC I think it would be a sin to alter the signal the DAC is meant to preserve on conversion. DSP/room correction upstream would just make an ultra resolving DAC completely unnecessary.

 

[RandomEar]

I agree but with a $12,000 DAC I think it would be a sin to alter the signal the DAC is meant to preserve on conversion. DSP/room correction upstream would just make an ultra resolving DAC completely unnecessary.

That doesn't make sense, does it? Your room and speakers alter the sound 100 times more than any DAC. You want those errors to be corrected as good as possible. The more so on a DAC which is supposedly "more perfect" than perfect.

 

[pkane]

I can't imagine why you would need that many bits for home playback use.

Yes, too many bits. 4-6 of these will be well below the noise floor of a typical listening room and the self-noise of a typical amplifier coupled with noise and distortion of the transducer. The noise generated by air molecules hitting the eardrum will put yet another upper limit of any useful bits in the recording. 28 bits DAC seems pointless for home use to me, other than as an engineering achievement.

 

[thcdru2k]

That doesn't make sense, does it? Your room and speakers alter the sound 100 times more than any DAC. You want those errors to be corrected as good as possible. The more so on a DAC which is supposedly "more perfect" than perfect.

I agree with you 100%. From an audible standpoint room correction and subwoofer integration have a far larger impact than the DAC.

That said, it raises and interesting question in the case of something like a $12,000 DAC. If the audible result is already dominated by DSP and room correction, then the benefit of an ultra high-end DAC becomes zero. I question what problem is the DAC solving in a system where the signal is already being reshaped upstream. That's why I kind of thought that this DAC is not really meant for normal systems. Maybe more fitting in a perfectly treated room with a pair of Magico where there is a reason to preserve the original signal

 

[Purité Audio]

No such thing as an ‘ultra high end dac’ plenty of expensive dacs that are no better than any competently designed unit.
Keith

 

[egellings]

No need to order a drop forge when all you need is a tack hammer.

 

[Matt_Holland]

When will the obsession with increasing the “resolution” of digital audio stop?

 

[EJ3]

When will the obsession with increasing the “resolution” of digital audio stop?

This device is apparently designed for production work (where more 'resolution' is commonly needed).

 

[yyzsb]

I'm glad you mentioned that a nice burn-in is required (100 hours?). It makes it really easy to ignore everything that follows.

I knew that would get a positive reaction in this crowd. No worries as I am listening to tunes these days while I work away. When you folks get your test results, I would be extremely interested. I do have $70 available for a DAC for my office setup.

 

[yyzsb]

I agree with you 100%. From an audible standpoint room correction and subwoofer integration have a far larger impact than the DAC.

That said, it raises and interesting question in the case of something like a $12,000 DAC. If the audible result is already dominated by DSP and room correction, then the benefit of an ultra high-end DAC becomes zero. I question what problem is the DAC solving in a system where the signal is already being reshaped upstream. That's why I kind of thought that this DAC is not really meant for normal systems. Maybe more fitting in a perfectly treated room with a pair of Magico where there is a reason to preserve the original signal

My setup.

Yamaha NS5000 speaker
imersiv D-1
CODA #11 or CODA #16 amp
Sonore OpticalRendu fibre streaming

Very simple and not Magico, but better.

 

[thcdru2k]

My setup.

Yamaha NS5000 speaker
imersiv D-1
CODA #11 or CODA #16 amp
Sonore OpticalRendu fibre streaming

Very simple and not Magico, but better.

No subwoofer, no auto calibration, no REW sweeps, no adjusting delays. I’m sure there are a lot of people who are against such a system, but there is something appealing about the simplicity of a system without correction. It's not necessarily relaxing to fine tune a system for hours on end, measure this/measure that and look at graphs.

 

[yyzsb]

I have actually measured my other room with other gear. I called Mitch Barnett from AccurateSounds.ca and he remotely analyzed my room measurements. He created a set of ROON convolution filters for my 2-channel Thiel CS3.7 which was in a too small room. I also had sound acoustic panels though I could have eliminated that with the convolution filters, but I already had them, so the filters were built with them in place.

However, that room no longer has audio and my Thiel CS3.7 are long gone. I do have Mitch's RAAL SR1b earphone Convolution filters. I used these when needed. I actually forgot to use it last night. I was wondering why the tunes were not perfect on the phones. Simplicity is very nice.

I actually have a bit of a node in my Yamaha setup. I need to call Mitch to resolve that, but I am too busy. The system sounds fabulous but of course has room for a bit more improvement.

Amazon.com: Accurate Sound Reproduction Using DSP eBook : Barnett, Mitch: Kindle Store

Amazon.com: Accurate Sound Reproduction Using DSP eBook : Barnett, Mitch: Kindle Store

www.amazon.com

 

[Mnyb]

If use a computer, the output works similarly to a DAW you do your room correction with floating point math ( like ROON ).
So it would be completely unaffected.

Does it accept a 32 bit signal as input btw ?

What if all I have is packaged in 24 bit integers ( commercials bought music ) and not the output from studio software .

Ffw I’ve used ROON’s quite excellent PEQ and also the less perfect PEQ in my WiiM I don’t sweat it .