Never Put Subwoofers In Corners... Even with DSP and Multi-Sub Setups?

[stevenswall]

This article seems to go against a lot of what I hear on the forum: (Is this guy just trying to sell something?)

https://www.acousticfields.com/why-you-should-never-place-subwoofers-in-your-corners/

"So don’t buy into this culture of putting the subwoofer in the corner. And definitely don’t buy into the culture of multiple subs will smooth out the frequency response. Yes, technically it will but the smoothness, the level of smoothness that you get in the bump is so minuscule, it’s maybe 1 or 2 dB."

Pretty sure it's going to sum and be +3dB or -3dB, plus a MiniDSP should be able to help even more.

Also, if it's just adding a bunch of gain putting it in the corner, DSP would fix that too it seems: I have my Genelec's in a corner and they measure flat down to 18hz or so.

I remember another user who said that it's all about controlling the peaks and nulls in the room, and even ringing and smear can be controlled just by having a DSP system take care of the peaks, which goes against what this guy says about treatment:

"Put that money in treatment. You’ll be way better off. Use less energy, more treatment and balance it out that way. It’s better to reduce the response."

Looking at getting a pair of Rythmik FV15 subwoofers to use as stands once I move everything to the basement, but apparently corner placement is bad even if I run things from a MiniDSP.

Also of Note: Speakers that go low enough not to "need" subwoofers... Just make me want subwoofers more because now I know what things can sounds like and sometimes want it louder when watching Interstellar.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

".................. And definitely don’t buy into the culture of multiple subs will smooth out the frequency response. Yes, technically it will but the smoothness, the level of smoothness that you get in the bump is so minuscule, it’s maybe 1 or 2 dB."
Pretty sure it's going to sum and be +3dB or -3dB, plus a MiniDSP should be able to help even more.

Here is a graph that compares the FR of a single sub (with EQ) with three subs (with EQ) and it shows a pair of nulls at 66Hz and 84Hz that are reduced in sharpness and depth (by 22dB and 16dB respectively) resulting in an overall smoother FR.

From: https://www.stereophile.com/content/jl-audio-fathom-f110v2-powered-subwoofer-measurements

 

[A.West]

A person selling acoustic treatments says to spend your money on acoustic treatment, not more subwoofers. Not surprising. I don't know what he means by room response vs speaker response, or why the former is supposed to be worse than the latter. This guy's business must be getting killed by DSP and room correction software.
My first subwoofer was a HSU, and their first advice was to try putting it in a front corner. SVS also recommends starting with front corners when trying out sub placement. Are so many popular sub makers purposefully sabotaging the sound of their products?
I now have an SVS PC2000 in my front corner and a SVS PB2000 on my side wall of a large room, using Audyssey xt32 with dual sub outputs and SubEQ HT. Low frequencies in this setup are very good in my opinion.

 

[ta240]

Here is a graph that compares the FR of a single sub (with EQ) with three subs (with EQ) and it shows a pair of nulls at 66Hz and 84Hz that are reduced in sharpness and depth (by 22dB and 16dB respectively) resulting in an overall smoother FR.

From: https://www.stereophile.com/content/jl-audio-fathom-f110v2-powered-subwoofer-measurements

I've got to start paying more attention to the information on the measurements page of the reviews. I got a cheap little DSP for my sub and when it does the frequency sweep for the room it hits big nulls like that and it sounds like someone is twisting the gain knob all the way back and forth. I've got 2 more subs but they are all different and I don't know how well they will work together. One is ported, one has passive radiators and one is sealed.

 

[pozz]

Acoustic Fields is the boutique junk of the acoustic product vendors. His "tutorials" irritate me to no end. I've wrote about them before: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ge-a-resonator-bass-absorber.8809/post-221660

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Acoustic Fields is the boutique junk of the acoustic product vendors. His "tutorials" irritate me to no end. I've wrote about them before: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ge-a-resonator-bass-absorber.8809/post-221660

That post reminds me to mention that there are a pair of the MSR Springtraps in the room where my measurements were made but, of course, they are a constant.

 

[pozz]

MSR Springtraps

One of the few bass products I've liked on paper: http://msr-inc.com/studio/springtrap/springtrap.html

 

[Duke]

[quoting Acoustic Fields' website] "So don’t buy into this culture of putting the subwoofer in the corner. And definitely don’t buy into the culture of multiple subs will smooth out the frequency response. Yes, technically it will but the smoothness, the level of smoothness that you get in the bump is so minuscule, it’s maybe 1 or 2 dB."

Acoustician Matthew Poes on bass trapping vs multiple subs. He gets his point across within about thirty seconds from where the link is cued up to:

Note that Matthew gets paid to specify and install bass traps. He does not sell multisub systems.

Disclaimer: I do.

Regarding placing subs in corners, with a distributed multisub system (consisting of at least three subs) imo one in a corner may be desirable, but I suggest placing no more than one in a corner. I subscribe to Earl Geddes's ideas on distributed multisub systems, which encourages placing the subs in acoustically dissimilar locations, hence no more than one in a corner according to that school of thought.

 

[North_Sky]

I'm from that school too, and in my own personal experiemce; only one sub...near a corner, multiple subs...the game change for the better.

But, measurements are the pudding. And no two rooms are alike.
And of course two subs are better than one.

Key: Experiment ... with mics and ears and graphs. Pick the best...what sounds best to you and your laptop's screen. Never stop experimenting, or you'll be behind the curve ...
Always be on the move, live life extremely electrifying and intensifying, with maximum chaos; deep deep tremendous bass impact and all that jazz, or go home.

 

[Alexanderc]

Same guy in this video (should be post number 20 in another thread). Obviously selling something.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/value-of-room-correction.11852/#post-342434

 

[North_Sky]

Same guy in this video (should be post number 20 in another thread). Obviously selling something.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/value-of-room-correction.11852/#post-342434

This guy is good, real good. He knows what he's talking about.

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Personally, any time I’ve had a sub that wasn’t in a corner, it got me a nasty null that couldn’t be fixed. Not to mention worse extension. The worst I ever got in a corner was a peak or two that was easily corrected with parametric EQ. Oh yes, and better SPL and extension.

I’ve never had a room that was conducive to multiple subs, so I’ll leave those comments to others. Fortunately, I’ve never been dissatisfied enough with my performance to feel the need for more subs.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[ehabheikal]

This article seems to go against a lot of what I hear on the forum: (Is this guy just trying to sell something?)

https://www.acousticfields.com/why-you-should-never-place-subwoofers-in-your-corners/

"So don’t buy into this culture of putting the subwoofer in the corner. And definitely don’t buy into the culture of multiple subs will smooth out the frequency response. Yes, technically it will but the smoothness, the level of smoothness that you get in the bump is so minuscule, it’s maybe 1 or 2 dB."

Pretty sure it's going to sum and be +3dB or -3dB, plus a MiniDSP should be able to help even more.

Also, if it's just adding a bunch of gain putting it in the corner, DSP would fix that too it seems: I have my Genelec's in a corner and they measure flat down to 18hz or so.

I remember another user who said that it's all about controlling the peaks and nulls in the room, and even ringing and smear can be controlled just by having a DSP system take care of the peaks, which goes against what this guy says about treatment:

"Put that money in treatment. You’ll be way better off. Use less energy, more treatment and balance it out that way. It’s better to reduce the response."

Looking at getting a pair of Rythmik FV15 subwoofers to use as stands once I move everything to the basement, but apparently corner placement is bad even if I run things from a MiniDSP.

Also of Note: Speakers that go low enough not to "need" subwoofers... Just make me want subwoofers more because now I know what things can sounds like and sometimes want it louder when watching Interstellar.

I think what you are saying is true, but correction in essence corrects for your position or set of positions, while a properly distributed sound might even if not at the same quality in your position will be better for people off center etc.

 

[Alexanderc]

I assume that’s sarcasm. It’s hard to tell in writing

 

[sfdoddsy]

What he conveniently forgets to mention is the size and cost needed for effective bass traps.

Extra subs and EQ are more space efficient and cheaper.

 

[Koeitje]

What he conveniently forgets to mention is the size and cost needed for effective bass traps.

Extra subs and EQ are more space efficient and cheaper.

Yep, for home setups I'd always start out with multiple subs and an EQ and go from there.

 

[FrantzM]

Acousticfields. why-you-should-never-place-subwoofers-in-your-corners piece, is a pile of Bovine and other mammals , including Human, MANURE...
I'll waste not one more electron on this...

 

[CDMC]

The guy is selling $30 acoustic foam panels for $500. Of course he thinks treatment is the cure, he makes a fortune from it. To be effective below 100hz, bass traps have to be enormous, or you have to use a hemholtz trap for specific frequencies. Multiple subs are far more effective at smoothing and do something no dsp can do, smooth over a much larger area of a room. Two subs and dsp after careful setup gets you huge benefits.

 

[March Audio]

This article seems to go against a lot of what I hear on the forum: (Is this guy just trying to sell something?)

https://www.acousticfields.com/why-you-should-never-place-subwoofers-in-your-corners/

"So don’t buy into this culture of putting the subwoofer in the corner. And definitely don’t buy into the culture of multiple subs will smooth out the frequency response. Yes, technically it will but the smoothness, the level of smoothness that you get in the bump is so minuscule, it’s maybe 1 or 2 dB."

Pretty sure it's going to sum and be +3dB or -3dB, plus a MiniDSP should be able to help even more.

Also, if it's just adding a bunch of gain putting it in the corner, DSP would fix that too it seems: I have my Genelec's in a corner and they measure flat down to 18hz or so.

I remember another user who said that it's all about controlling the peaks and nulls in the room, and even ringing and smear can be controlled just by having a DSP system take care of the peaks, which goes against what this guy says about treatment:

"Put that money in treatment. You’ll be way better off. Use less energy, more treatment and balance it out that way. It’s better to reduce the response."

Looking at getting a pair of Rythmik FV15 subwoofers to use as stands once I move everything to the basement, but apparently corner placement is bad even if I run things from a MiniDSP.

Also of Note: Speakers that go low enough not to "need" subwoofers... Just make me want subwoofers more because now I know what things can sounds like and sometimes want it louder when watching Interstellar.

Multiple subs (plus a bit of EQ) is the only practical way to get smooth (and even in different positions around the room) low frequency response in domestic sized rooms.

See here for 1 to 4 subs and 4 subs plus EQ

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...subwoofer-selection-criteria.7080/post-163945

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...subwoofer-selection-criteria.7080/post-163949

Single subs will never work well even with EQ. Corner placement with multiple subs works fine, as you can see in the example above. You benefit from room boundary gain, however mid wall may be a bit smoother.

 

[Senior NEET Engineer]

I agree that multi sub (3+) is not worth the money. I'd rather spend it on bass trapping the ceiling, rear wall, corners, etc which will help a lot in the more important 100-1000hz region. Or don't spend anything extra and just use good placement and EQ for <100hz.