Neutron HiFi DAC V1 Review

[Hifihedgehog]

This question is more of a curiosity and maybe it is a limitation of the host devices' platform differences. Is there a way Neutron HiFi DAC could ever automatically toggle the "apple volume scale" setting without Neutron Configurator? I have to routinely switch when moving between my PC and iPhone. If there were a way for the DAC to tell by host device to change to the Apple volume scaling. Or if it could be changed without using the configuration app, that as well. Either would be a huge convenience and time saver for me.

 

[neutroncode]

This question is more of a curiosity and maybe it is a limitation of the host devices' platform differences. Is there a way Neutron HiFi DAC could ever automatically toggle the "apple volume scale" setting without Neutron Configurator? I have to routinely switch when moving between my PC and iPhone. If there were a way for the DAC to tell by host device to change to the Apple volume scaling. Or if it could be changed without using the configuration app, that as well. Either would be a huge convenience and time saver for me.

Unfortunately USB device can't guess the host, host does not identify self.

 

[d1m0n]

@neutroncode Speaking of different hosts. Is it maybe possible to implement or activate UAC1.0 ability on the V1? As option in the advanced tab for example so one can choose if needed or even better if this will be recognised automatically on boot up.
The intended use case would be for PalyStation 5 or Nintendo Switch as those devices only support UAC1.0.

 

[neutroncode]

Is it maybe possible to implement or activate UAC1.0 ability on the V1?

DAC V1 is based on a general-purpose NXP MCU and there is full control of firmware source code, thus basically everything is possible if it is within MCU's capabilities. There is already an option to enforce Full-Speed mode, it could imply UAC1.0 descriptor. If device is connected to a Full-Speed only host then DAC V1 falls back already to the Full-Speed mode thus even additional option is not needed unless you want DAC V1 in always Full-Speed mode.

The intended use case would be for PalyStation 5 or Nintendo Switch as those devices only support UAC1.0.

Is it still widely used scenario, I mean PS or Ninendo + USB DAC?

 

[OHtaru]

There is already an option to enforce Full-Speed mode, it could imply UAC1.0 descriptor.

Based on my observations, this option only sets the USB speed to Full-Speed, and its descriptor still shows it as UAC2.0. USB speed and UAC version should be independent.

One of my computers benefits from this option because it has no sound in USB high-speed mode.
(It seems everything on the computer is working normally: the player can play without error and NConfigurator works properly, just no sound. I compared the descriptors between the USB speed modes, and the only differences are in the USB speed and frame interval time information.)

I don't have a UAC1.0 device, so I'm not sure what will happen when the Neutron DAC is connected to them.

 

[neutroncode]

Based on my observations, this option only sets the USB speed to Full-Speed, and its descriptor still shows it as UAC2.0. USB speed and UAC version should be independent.

Noted - UAC1.0 shall be a separate option implying Full-Speed mode.

I benefit from Full-Speed more option too when using DAC V1 in a virtual machine on macOS or Linux. It does not work well with high-speed isochronous transfers but full-speed is ok. It is probably due to a timing issue when virtual machine is emulating the USB controller.

It seems everything on the computer is working normally: the player can play without error and NConfigurator works properly, just no sound.

Depends on USB controller, OS and drivers for the motherboard. Maybe the problem is in the support of isochronous transfers in a high-speed mode.

 

[Hifihedgehog]

@neutroncode Speaking of different hosts. Is it maybe possible to implement or activate UAC1.0 ability on the V1? As option in the advanced tab for example so one can choose if needed or even better if this will be recognised automatically on boot up.
The intended use case would be for PalyStation 5 or Nintendo Switch as those devices only support UAC1.0.

On a similar note, I have a Nintendo Switch 2, which reportedly supports UAC 2.0. However, the V1 does not work with it. However, other DACs like the Chord Mojo 2 do work with the Nintendo Switch 2. I would be pleased as punch if I could use my V1 with my Switch 2!

 

[neutroncode]

On a similar note, I have a Nintendo Switch 2, which reportedly supports UAC 2.0. However, the V1 does not work with it.

Can be some software bug/weakness of NSW when it is parsing UAC 2.0 descriptors, found Reddit thread with reports on various DAC models working and not working with NSW2, PS:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/1l4jpof/some_usb_audio_class_20_dacs_work_with_nintendo

Based on reports most probably the key is the USB descriptor and how it is composed, probably NSW2 respects some specific layout of USB descriptor. Will check USB descriptors of other devices devices and PM you if get something useful.

PS: @Hifihedgehog I PMed you with NConfigurator config to try first. Then will proceed with UAC1.0 works (+ option for PS4/5 + NSW/2).

 

[d1m0n]

Is it still widely used scenario, I mean PS or Ninendo + USB DAC?

I can't say how the demand for this is overall. I play PS5/Switch just occasionally but more or less regular. For me such an option is not crucial but would be a super feature if needed.
As the V1 has no buttons to switch the modes like for example the Fiio DACs in practise the max benefit for occasional PS/Switch users would be something like a "auto detection" if possible at all. If not possible an UAC toggle in NConfigurator setting as option would be still an addition imho.

I don't have a UAC1.0 device, so I'm not sure what will happen when the Neutron DAC is connected to them.

Display say Hi! on boot up like normal. But the PS5 / Switch just don't recognise it as audio device.

 

[Hifihedgehog]

Can be some software bug/weakness of NSW when it is parsing UAC 2.0 descriptors, found Reddit thread with reports on various DAC models working and not working with NSW2, PS:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/1l4jpof/some_usb_audio_class_20_dacs_work_with_nintendo

Based on reports most probably the key is the USB descriptor and how it is composed, probably NSW2 respects some specific layout of USB descriptor. Will check USB descriptors of other devices devices and PM you if get something useful.

PS: @Hifihedgehog I PMed you with NConfigurator config to try first. Then will proceed with UAC1.0 works (+ option for PS4/5 + NSW/2).

Thanks! That didn't quite work but I am happy to continue cycling through a bunch of different firmware permutations via PM to see what works. I'm not sure how the Switch 2 works with some UAC 2.0 devices but it must be something simple if the Chord and Fosi devices have it figured out.

 

[AndyBell]

My Neutron HiFi DAC V1 arrived today and I’m impressed with it.

I have a couple of other USB DACs so I did a quick, and not particularly scientific comparison, of it and the FiiO KA15 and BTR 17.

With them all in ‘basic’ mode (no in DAC peq etc), connected to my Samsung Galaxy A16 and using Neutron player, they all sounded identical. No surprises there.

But I got this DAC because of its configurability, with the idea I could use it when streaming from Qobuz and get the same sound as I do with Neutron player, which I’ve configured for my headphones and preferred EQ settings.

It exceeded my expectations.

I played the same songs as FLAC files in the Neutron player, with no DSP in the DAC, and then streamed from Qobuz, with the DAC’s DSP set to the same as Neutron player.

Both setups sounded the same to me. Exactly what I was after.

Then I discovered the DAC’s ALC capability, which the Neutron player doesn’t have, and was able to tweak the sound further.

It took a little while to set up the Configurator app and create the presets I wanted, but the effort was worth it.

It won’t replace my BTR17, because Bluetooth is very convenient when I’m out and about, etc, but it will be my go to device for listening outside of my office/music room.

 

[neutroncode]

I played the same songs as FLAC files in the Neutron player, with no DSP in the DAC, and then streamed from Qobuz, with the DAC’s DSP set to the same as Neutron player.

The DSP core is the same (not similar code but the same) as in Neutron Player, so basically DSP in DAC V1 is drop replacement for Neutron Player's DSP and from the point of energy saving it makes sense to use DSP on DAC V1 as it has better processing/consumed power ratio in comparison to main CPU which can be freed for other tasks (DSP overloading to hw).

 

[AndyBell]

The DSP core is the same (not similar code but the same) as in Neutron Player, so basically DSP in DAC V1 is drop replacement for Neutron Player's DSP and from the point of energy saving it makes sense to use DSP on DAC V1 as it has better processing/consumed power ratio in comparison to main CPU which can be freed for other tasks (DSP overloading to hw).

Out of curiosity, I decided to try the Neutron DAC as a desktop DAC connected to my Windows PC by USB and active speakers (Argon Audio Forte A5) using a 3.5mm to RCA cable. I usually have a Topping DX3 pro+ in that role, which has much higher power output than the Neutron.

After increasing the speaker’s volume to a comfortable level I confirmed the Neutron sounded ok with all DSP switched off. No clicking or pops or distortion was audible (to me). Although I wasn’t doing any rigorous comparisons, it sounded much the same as any other DAC I’ve tried - in other words, no surprises here.

Now the fun began!

Using Neutron’s configuration app (in Windows) I created a profile that I set as follows:

Frequency Response Control: I set its EQ to the RoomFit settings from my WiiM Pro

Surround sound - on, default settings

Adaptive Loudness Compensation - bass boost preset

I left the PEQ off, though I could have tweaked the sound further.

Result: it put a smile on my face

Obviously, this is 100% subjective, but it achieved a sound I enjoyed and meant I could play the Qobuz app (which doesn’t have DSP) without needing a player such as Audirvāna to get the sound I like.

I compared the specs of this with the Qudelix T71, which has had a lot of interest since Amir’s review.

Quality wise, there’s no significant differences, aside from the Neutron not having the ‘ESS hump’.

Power wise, the Qudelix has much more, but the Neutron has no issues with my ER2XR’s and was fine with my active speakers. And the Qudelix has balanced headphone out.

If I’m reading the Qudelix’s manual correctly, the Neutron’s DSP has more features, which certainly appeals to me as I love to experiment with settings.

My main use case with the Neutron is portable use connected to my Samsung Galaxy A16 and ER2XR iems. But I think it will see some desktop use as well…