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neutral dac under 350?

porotikos

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Hello guys. First post here. I am John From Athens, Greece. while googling for dacs, i came to this amazing site. i am reading many reviews and i am falling in live with this excellent forum.
Well, i am in need for some suggestions from you.
right now, i play my flac files through my desktop pc's soundboard, a xonar ds. the signal is sent to my sansui au 717 amplifier. My speakers are floorstanding diy hi end neutral amazing speakers. many mix the word "neutral" with flat and lifeless. but that is not the case.

i am looking for a usb dac to connect to my pc and send the flacs to my amp. i want a neutral dac that will just convert the signal as accurately as possible. i want to listen to the music and not the equipment, if you get what i mean.
my files are mostly flac and they are 24 bit 192 or 96 khz mostly. (many are vinyl rips).
i would prefer the dac to have usb and optical in, abd rca out. dsd playabillity is welcome.
But the most important think is as accurate as possible playback.
for my price range (around 350 euros tops), what are my best options? i am reading about topping d50. i will read the forum more in the coming days.
But can you guys suggest some more dacs to read their reviews and search for them? that would be greatly appreciated.

if you need any more info from me, so that you make better suggestions, please do ask. i will try and provide all necessary info.
thank you all. what an amazing place this is!!!!

topping d50 really really looks temp[ting. i wonder how many competitors to it, are in this prioce range or a bit more.
thank you guys
 

escalibur

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I would go with Khadas Tone Board. It's really making other DACs running for their money. I would love to see some blind test against some $1,000> DACs. That's how good Khadas really is. :)
 

M00ndancer

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I would consider topping dx3, rca out. I really like the new AKM DACs
Gets a vote from me as well, ticks all the things you need.
 
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porotikos

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thank you guys. any more suggestions are more than welcome. i will check them all out and come back to the thread later,. thank you
 
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porotikos

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guys thank you very very much. You are really helping.
i read many many reviews.
right now i am between topping d50 and the khadas tone board. (unless you people suggest another contester to look out for.).
khadas is 100 euros cheaper. (a bit less because i have to get a nice enclosure for it).
they both use the same chip. i am guessing that these should sound about the same?
someone mentioned in another thread that d50 is sent with a power plug? i didnt read that in the product page. perhaps he was wrong? (saying that because this could up the cost of d50 by a bit.
d50 has a screen. khadas not. but really, should i care?
if both dacs can detect the format i am playing (be it flac 192 or 96 khz, either 16 or 24 bit) would it automatically adjust itself to play them? why would or should i care for a screen?
if khadas has no on off button(i think it doesnt have from what io read) and it starts itself once you power the pc, i prefer that, from having to start another machine up, each time. it would be a bonus since khadas can be used also in my car stereo or my phone. hell i could even get 2 of these boards.

so am i right to assume that i should go for the one that has the best implementation of the chip? wouldnt mind to pay more for the topping if it is really worth it. but i dont care about volume manipulation or the screen (cant find any real use for it). so perhaps i should go for the khadas? what do you guys think?

ps. do these dacs have double clock for 44.1 and 48? havent read that in the reviews.

i will inverstigate more and come back to the thread. this is a magnificent forum. thank you so much

ps. sound would be night and day compared to my asus xonar ds soundcard, right?
 

Veri

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they both use the same chip. i am guessing that these should sound about the same?
Since they are both well implemented and well made, that seems very likely yes :)

someone mentioned in another thread that d50 is sent with a power plug? i didnt read that in the product page. perhaps he was wrong? (saying that because this could up the cost of d50 by a bit)
I think you might need two USB ports, one for power one for data. So unless you plug it via a usb power adapter, you will need two ports of your computer. I'm actually no longer sure if it comes with an adapter... sorry about that! It was over a year ago.
 

Veri

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so am i right to assume that i should go for the one that has the best implementation of the chip? wouldnt mind to pay more for the topping if it is really worth it. but i dont care about volume manipulation or the screen (cant find any real use for it). so perhaps i should go for the khadas? what do you guys think?

ps. do these dacs have double clock for 44.1 and 48? havent read that in the reviews.

i will inverstigate more and come back to the thread. this is a magnificent forum. thank you so much

ps. sound would be night and day compared to my asus xonar ds soundcard, right?

I think the khadas would suffice for your needs. Both have separate clock for 44/48 yes, pretty much any $30+ DAC does :)

About the xonar, if it was really good you might not hear that much of a difference. Depends on how sucky it was (is)! That is a point in favor of the D50, buy it from amazon and return it if you're not convinced.
 

DKT88

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Hello guys. First post here. I am John From Athens, Greece. while googling for dacs, i came to this amazing site. i am reading many reviews and i am falling in live with this excellent forum.
Well, i am in need for some suggestions from you.
right now, i play my flac files through my desktop pc's soundboard, a xonar ds. the signal is sent to my sansui au 717 amplifier. My speakers are floorstanding diy hi end neutral amazing speakers. many mix the word "neutral" with flat and lifeless. but that is not the case.

i am looking for a usb dac to connect to my pc and send the flacs to my amp. i want a neutral dac that will just convert the signal as accurately as possible. i want to listen to the music and not the equipment, if you get what i mean.
my files are mostly flac and they are 24 bit 192 or 96 khz mostly. (many are vinyl rips).
i would prefer the dac to have usb and optical in, abd rca out. dsd playabillity is welcome.
But the most important think is as accurate as possible playback.
for my price range (around 350 euros tops), what are my best options? i am reading about topping d50. i will read the forum more in the coming days.
But can you guys suggest some more dacs to read their reviews and search for them? that would be greatly appreciated.

if you need any more info from me, so that you make better suggestions, please do ask. i will try and provide all necessary info.
thank you all. what an amazing place this is!!!!

topping d50 really really looks temp[ting. i wonder how many competitors to it, are in this prioce range or a bit more.
thank you guys
I bought a Topping D10 (which is reviewed here) for my brother and he plugged it in and followed the installation instructions for the driver with no issues. It plays DSC64-256 native with the included ASIO driver. They are about $90 on Amazon international and aliexpress.com. Free shipping from ali. Not sure about amazon. It replaced and old Schiit that wouldn't do DSD. It gets its power and data from the USB 2.0 by the way.
 
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porotikos

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spend couple of hours reading even more comparisons test, reviews etc.
Again i am more confused. though there should be only 3 contesters now in my mind
khadas tone board
topping d50
topping d10

the first 2 use ES9038Q2M chip while d10 uses ES9018K2M.
first one should be "better". though i am guessing the implementation used in all 3 dacs and the outcome (signal) should be about equal, am i right?

so, if we are thinking value for money, d50 comes last. especially since i dont need volume adjustment. nor do i need fancy screen. d10 is the cheapest, but on the other hand, khadas may be more suited for me since i dont need to power anything, it starts with my pc, so this gives one less think to start, plug in or worry.
so right now i should be heading for khadas. that is, if the power it gets from the desktop pc usb port, doesnt affect its performance negatively.

last minute concern though is what i am reading about ess hump.
all 3 have it. it is due to the chip. i read here
https://forum.khadas.com/t/ess-hump-solution/3746/49
that in the new khadas board this should be fixed. but it could take 3 months for it to arrive. and i read it could have xlr which i dont need, and much rather have rca outputs instead... could i be waiting for nothing? should i start looking for another chip that doesnt have this "problem" .

i am so confused.....
thank you guys for all your help. while i am getting confused, i much prefer this , to being ignorant. you are a great help. i really value your opinions and suggestions.
please keep them coming!!! take care
 

FrantzM

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Not too sure the “hump” is an audible issue. I prefer No hump intellectually but that is not a deal breaker. The Lhardas other specs and performance are remarkable. Such a bord + jds Atom is an endgame level combo.
 
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porotikos

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Not too sure the “hump” is an audible issue. I prefer No hump intellectually but that is not a deal breaker. The Lhardas other specs and performance are remarkable. Such a bord + jds Atom is an endgame level combo.
thank you my dear friend. i say, that i am no expert. almost a noob and certainly a noob when it comes to dacs. thats why i asked about ess hump. if it is not audible. then probably i should get khadas tone board. though i wouldnt mind waiting for it a bit to see what happens with new revision and specs. if i see that it is getting expensive i might get the current version instead. but yes ultimately i am leaning towards khadas i guess. unless someone else gives me some info that could change my mind.
ps, i have no need for jds atom at the moment.
ps2. i really like that you mentioned khadas could be endgame. i am certainly not a guy that changes equipment often. and thats why i am looking for a vfm dac that is good enough. cheers
 

luxnulla

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I bought the Topping DX3 Pro a month ago to use both as a DAC for my active studio monitors and as headphones amp. Got it from Audiophonics for a bit more than 200 euros and I think it sounds great. I don't see any rational reasons for buying anything else above this price point. I guess khadas is convenient if you dont mind figuring out a case yourself and not having a remote (which has been a big treat for me...). I know that just by looking at the measurements khadas seems like getting quite ahead from the dx3, but in reality there are no audible differences when listening to music. My advice is to go with what's more convenient for you.
Good luck with your purchase
 
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porotikos

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I bought the Topping DX3 Pro a month ago to use both as a DAC for my active studio monitors and as headphones amp. Got it from Audiophonics for a bit more than 200 euros and I think it sounds great. I don't see any rational reasons for buying anything else above this price point. I guess khadas is convenient if you dont mind figuring out a case yourself and not having a remote (which has been a big treat for me...). I know that just by looking at the measurements khadas seems like getting quite ahead from the dx3, but in reality there are no audible differences when listening to music. My advice is to go with what's more convenient for you.
Good luck with your purchase
thank you my friend. This is a great suggestion and a very nice dac. Thing is, i don't need a remote or head amp at all. Everything goes through my Behringer 16 channel mixer. Headphones are attached to it and i am always sitting near the mixer. So i think i could save some money since i don't need the extra feautures. I think id already have bought the tone board. But i thought I'd wait for the new version that eliminates the ess hump. Once it is tested, and if the price is right, i am ordering it. Otherwise ill order the previous revision
 
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andreasmaaan

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Yia sou Yianni :) For under $350 you have a huge number of options for an accurate (transparent) DAC. Certainly all the units mentioned so far in the thread, and many more.

index.php


Taking a look at Amir's graph above, anything in the green and blue categories is almost certain to not create any audible distortion whatsoever. The same is very likely to be true of anything in the orange category, and arguably may be true of a number of devices in the red category.

At a glance and going from memory, your cheapest options with the inputs/outputs you need that has a SINAD over 100dB (green category or better) is the Topping D10. Best value for additional performance is probably the Khadas Tone Board, but you'd need to add your own case (audiophonics.fr stocks one for quite cheap, not sure if it's any good). Schiit Modi 3 is another good-value option, although I think it may be a little more expensive in the EU.

EDIT: there is no optical input on the D10 or the Tone Board - oops!
 
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Badger

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I love my khadas tone board, the audiophonics case is great too. Only thing though is that you said you want USB and optical in. The tone board has USB and digital coax, not optical in (although you could get a converter from monoprice for $12 if you need to.)
 

Veri

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what is it having you make such a comment? I am also wondering about your opinion regarding the major benefits of ak4490 over ES9038pro or vice versa.
To explain, I really like the performance of the 4490/4493 chips while their cost is very low. I did not mean for any hocus pocus from that statement ;)

I'm also, just a big fan of Japanese AKM :D
 
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