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Neutral bookshelf speakers @ $2000?

Ilkless

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Funny thing is: at the price both @daftcombo and I got the 906s, these would have been the cheapest of all the shootout... (Yes, even cheaper than Q150, no kidding). While for you, living in Singapore, it should be the opposite, right?
Yes, Focal never had great pricing in our country. Neither does KEF. ATC passives have amazing pricing on the contrary - to the extent I give grudging recommendations for the SCM7 passive. For instance, the SCM19 was on sale recently for over $600 less than the UK price (about the amount to VAT not paid with export sets, which is impressive because it means the dealer absorbed our local sales tax). Harbeth and PMC on the contrary are sold at around the same price or with even more margin than domestically. Marantz amps also had great pricing last I checked, but they don't manufacture any desirable amps now.
 

maty

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Yeah I'm aware of that, that's why this blind purchase is quite a risk for me. But, I've heard some Wharfedale towers before and they sounded glorious to my ears, so I'm being hopeful...

Wharfedale Evo 4.4
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=168122.msg1783002#msg1783002

by I.Greyhound Fan

[ My son purchased a pair of Wharfedale Evo 4.4 tower speakers 2 weeks ago after hearing them and falling in love with them at RMAF last September. We both thought that the Wharfedale room with the Evo's was in our top 10 rooms. They were paired with all Primare electronics and the sound was stunning for a $2K pair of speaker.

The speakers have about 70 hours of break in about now and they have changed dramatically for the better. I am stunned at how good these speakers are. The large AMT tweeter creates such air and transparency without the slightest hint of harshness. The top end is both detailed and smooth. The mid range has good texture and bass is powerful, tight with good slam. It is musical and deep. Bass is only 48hz at +/- 3db and 38hz +/-6db but it sounds much deeper thanks to the cabinet design and down firing port. In fact, at RMAF many people that walked into the room were asking where the subwoofers were. These speakers are a departure from the typical warm sound of Wharfedale although they do have a hint or warmth but are more closer to neutral. They present an almost 3D sound that is resolving, airey, clear and detailed without losing mid range depth.

I am just astounded at how smooth and no fatiguing they sound. My son auditioned KEF R5, 7 and 11's, Martin Logan XT's, Golden Ear speakers among others, and none had the combination of clarity, detail, resolution, smoothness and bass that the Wharfedales have. ]

https://www.wharfedale.co.uk/evo4-4/
 

Thomas savage

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Wharfedale Evo 4.4
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=168122.msg1783002#msg1783002

by I.Greyhound Fan

[ My son purchased a pair of Wharfedale Evo 4.4 tower speakers 2 weeks ago after hearing them and falling in love with them at RMAF last September. We both thought that the Wharfedale room with the Evo's was in our top 10 rooms. They were paired with all Primare electronics and the sound was stunning for a $2K pair of speaker.

The speakers have about 70 hours of break in about now and they have changed dramatically for the better. I am stunned at how good these speakers are. The large AMT tweeter creates such air and transparency without the slightest hint of harshness. The top end is both detailed and smooth. The mid range has good texture and bass is powerful, tight with good slam. It is musical and deep. Bass is only 48hz at +/- 3db and 38hz +/-6db but it sounds much deeper thanks to the cabinet design and down firing port. In fact, at RMAF many people that walked into the room were asking where the subwoofers were. These speakers are a departure from the typical warm sound of Wharfedale although they do have a hint or warmth but are more closer to neutral. They present an almost 3D sound that is resolving, airey, clear and detailed without losing mid range depth.

I am just astounded at how smooth and no fatiguing they sound. My son auditioned KEF R5, 7 and 11's, Martin Logan XT's, Golden Ear speakers among others, and none had the combination of clarity, detail, resolution, smoothness and bass that the Wharfedales have. ]

https://www.wharfedale.co.uk/evo4-4/
This is a forum that respects audio science and engineering .

I have to point out that a lot of what you say is only supported by you and directly contradicts respected research.

Can you keep such things to a minimum please .
 

VintageFlanker

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I am just astounded at how smooth and no fatiguing they sound. My son auditioned KEF R5, 7 and 11's, Martin Logan XT's, Golden Ear speakers among others, and none had the combination of clarity, detail, resolution, smoothness and bass that the Wharfedales have. ]
I have red this exact sentence for any speaker you want on just about any forum...
 

bunkbail

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I'm very happy with my EVO 4.2s. I preferred it to my KEF Q350, but it has no bass at all lol, in my room at least. I'm still looking for some affordable subs to fill up the lower octaves.
 

maty

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After some listenings from the same youtuber, I like much more KEF R3.

The most interesting thing is that there are two videos of the KEF R5. One of them is the first time they work, there are no bass ones, as happened to my Q100, which I thought of returning them. They needed many hours until the bass stabilized. I guess that was the reason they were a relative sales failure for years.

Video links here:

-> https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=168122.msg1783060#msg1783060

KEF Q350. The KEF 6.5" coaxial sound more a traditional 2-ways. The magic of Uni-Q is on 5.25".
 
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veeceem

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Thread Starter #228
@maty i already bought my pair of speakers based on recommendation of people in this thread, but just to remind you, I created this thread to discuss about choosing speakers base on measurements, not fantasies -__- so provides data/numbers to backup your claims, it helps those who read this thread with same approach as me. Thanks for reading
 

maty

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I have posted several times the measurements of the old R300 and the new R3, as well as the Q100 and LS5!

Zvu modified the crossover of the R300 and the spinorama clearly improved. It seems that in KEF they took note with the R3.

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/324975-kef-r300-playground-measurements-raw-drivers.html

And gornir measured the driver:

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mul...und-measurements-raw-drivers-post5491637.html

http://www.audioexcite.com/?page_id=3614


https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-of-the-kef-r3s.7867/


KEF R300 with new Zvu crossover versus KEF R3

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-of-the-kef-r3s.7867/post-189744






Now that you are liquidating them, it is better to buy KEF R300 or R700 and spend the money saved on improving them inside.

After or before some light touches of equalization with minimum phase PEQ + rePhase -> convolution filter. Of course, better listening off-axis.
 
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maty

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It is important to know that manufacturers spend the minimum on everything that is not seen. Somebody explain to me that the Q and more expensive R series lack cushioning material for thin MDF walls (at least in my Q100).

The 5.25" Uni-Q drivers are excellent but everything else .... The new KEF Q150 does not even carry an air coil! (Q100, 300... yes)

- The End -
 
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veeceem

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Thread Starter #234
@maty
I'm not a techie, I understand little about the numbers/measurements, but I assume whatever you're telling is not really related to the topic and will lead it astray or make it too techie to understand. Why? Because let say a pair of speakers have bad design, no foam, ect... Then it will probably be shown in the measurement, wont it?
A simple approach such as: a name of the speakers, a graph or two, and some thoughts/claim/explainations - should be enough and keep the topic on track, many topics die because so many things are brought to the table. Keep it simple and it'll grow. Just my POV.
And modding speakers is clearly unrelated. No need to reply to this post, I'm not attacking, just let the topic going.
Thanks for reading.
 

maty

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If you think that only the frequency response (flat) on axis defines a loudspeaker your chances of making a mistake in buying or building speakers will be quite high. Loudspeakers or amplifiers.

- I will try not to intervene again in this thread -
 
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andreasmaaan

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@veeceem sorry if someone's already mentioned M106, it's a long thread and I haven't looked all the way through it.

These were measured by the NRC and were shown to be a neutral speaker with (as you'd expect) no significant shortcomings. I think they cost bang on $2k/pair.

Another one I'd consider would be KEF R3, also $2k/pair. I'm not aware of any published measurements, but measurements of other models in the R series (e.g. R11) have shown these speakers to be generally quite neutral, and very well-behaved off-axis due to the coaxial mid/tweeter, which is the same in all models in the range.

The Buchhardt S400 would also be on my list. The manufcaturer has published measurements on their own website, which show them also to be quite neutral and well-behaved.
 

raistlin65

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After some listenings from the same youtuber, I like much more KEF R3.

The most interesting thing is that there are two videos of the KEF R5. One of them is the first time they work, there are no bass ones, as happened to my Q100, which I thought of returning them. They needed many hours until the bass stabilized. I guess that was the reason they were a relative sales failure for years.

Video links here:

-> https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=168122.msg1783060#msg1783060

KEF Q350. The KEF 6.5" coaxial sound more a traditional 2-ways. The magic of Uni-Q is on 5.25".
Just to note that video demos of speakers are very poor methods of evaluating speakers. They can easily provide as much or more misinformation as useful information. The recording process and electronics may color the sound. And then whatever the listener plays the video back on will color the sound, too. Then consider that such videos are not able to capture the soundstage and imaging of a pair of speakers.
 
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veeceem

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Thread Starter #238
@veeceem sorry if someone's already mentioned M106, it's a long thread and I haven't looked all the way through it.

These were measured by the NRC and were shown to be a neutral speaker with (as you'd expect) no significant shortcomings. I think they cost bang on $2k/pair.

Another one I'd consider would be KEF R3, also $2k/pair. I'm not aware of any published measurements, but measurements of other models in the R series (e.g. R11) have shown these speakers to be generally quite neutral, and very well-behaved off-axis due to the coaxial mid/tweeter, which is the same in all models in the range.

The Buchhardt S400 would also be on my list. The manufcaturer has published measurements on their own website, which show them also to be quite neutral and well-behaved.
There are measurements of KEF R3s. I auditioned them, very neutral, amazing vocal. Will be a right choice, imo.
I picked Revel M16s blind because I only need a well performed and neutral pair for bedroom (and save some cash for Salon2s). Big soundstage, neutral, detail sounding. M106s wont be worse, of course.
Go for KEF R3s or M106s, wont be a mistake, for sure :)
Iirc, all the mentioned models have been measured by 3rd party sites. Look it up
Edit: KEF R3 and Revel M106 have been mentioned in this thread, you should keep reading
 
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andreasmaaan

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There are measurements of KEF R3s. I auditioned them, very neutral, amazing vocal. Will be a right choice, imo.
I picked Revel M16s blind because I only need a well performed and neutral pair for bedroom (and save some cash for Salon2s). Big soundstage, neutral, detail sounding. M106s wont be worse, of course.
Go for KEF R3s or M106s, wont be a mistake, for sure :)
Iirc, all the mentioned models have been measured by 3rd party sites. Look it up
Edit: KEF R3 and Revel M106 have been mentioned in this thread, you should keep reading
Thanks @veeceem. Sounds like you made a good decision :) Do you have a link to the R3 measurements perhaps?
 
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