Neumann vs KEF for Home Theater

[rrahmanucla]

Just got a new home and have an opportunity to rebuild/rearrange my home theater set up. Pretty clear winners here from Amir's reviews and I already own a few speakers, so I am comparing the following options for living room and home theater

I already own in my current home theater/multimedia room KEF Reference 5, Reference 4c, R3's, and Rhythmic FV18's, running through NAD m17v2i and Parasound Halo amps.

Option 1) I use my KEF Reference 5, Reference 4c, R3, and purchase some CI200RR-THX for in-ceiling atmos. Then purchase a new set of speakers for living room and bedroom, options being Magico A5, KEF Blades, Neumann KH 420 or KH150 + Rythmik sub, Dutch&Dutch 8c or Revel 328be. Much cheaper at ~9k-18k depending on which speaker combo's for the other rooms.

Option 2) I repurpose my KEF speakers for the living room and bedroom, then create a home theater around Neuman KH420, KH 310, and KH150's and pair them with KEF CI200RR-THX atmos speakers. Cost ~19k

My main questions for discussion aside from which route to go. How are Neumann speakers for home theater, specifically can they get high enough SPL? Should I use a difference DAC since my NAD m17v2i has Dirac and Neumann has a different DSP? Will the Neumann speakers mesh well w/ KEF in ceiling speakers? Are there other in ceiling speakers that might be a better option w/ Neumann speaker?

 

[jae]

Personally I think option 1 is better, but factor in your personal habits and how much time/how many hours the multimedia room will be used into the choice. The way I see it, the more loudspeakers you have in a system the less important the performance of each unit is, this is just a fact psychoacoustically. All those KEF speakers are already excellent performers, but not as technically perfect as the Neumanns or some of the other choices. The wider directivity of the KEF may also be more appropriate for a typical home theatre setup where a wider sweet spot is necessary and where it is probably easier to treat. Assuming you are using DSP, their few shortcomings can be better overcome plus you already are familiar with using that setup. If you are spending money buying new speakers, it is better to allocate that money to your stereo setup(s) since that is where more money will give you an obviously better experience for both recreational and critical listening (and I assume those setups are also going to get more use on a daily basis in your living/bedroom more than a HT?) .

D&D 8C is a good choice for the non-HT spaces due to it's cardioid functionality, so it retains higher low-end fidelity in untreated spaces. Genelec Ones might also be a marginally better option for a living room over Neumann due to coaxial drivers/better aesthetics and colour options. Blades/LS60 are also good options as well. Active speakers in these domestic spaces significantly clean up the necessary wiring/gear and may give you more living space, whereas all the other gear is not really a big deal in a dedicated multimedia room.

 

[IamJF]

How big is your cinema room? If it's not huge you should be fine with KH150s and KH120ii? They don't have to run fullrange - these can really get lound when crossed over in the 80-100Hz area. Stick with KH120 for ceiling speakers to stay coherent.
A huge benefit would be that you can use the built in room measurement system which is excellent and compared to Trinnov quality. You could also use the digital input to get rid of unneccesary D/A A/D conversions when you have the fitting preamp (which is expensive ...)

I used KH120 in my office for music streaming ... couldn't stand it, especially with lower compression rates. They are to honest for causual listening. Now have KEF LS50s there which also sound good but I can "enjoy" lower quality audio sources. So I would not put Neumanns in my bedroom ;-) - these Bluetooth active KEFs are perfect for such a use!

 

[Ellebob]

I think either option you will have a very nice system. There is one exception though. I wouldn't use the CI-200-RR for Atmos. A good off axis response is not the same as on axis and will have decreased mids and highs. You want your atmos speakers to be angled and aim towards the listening position. If you're going to build some type of baffle and angle those Kef in ceiling speakers then I think they are good choice, but if you want them flush with the ceiling I would look elsewhere.

I would look for something that angles 45° or at least 30°, so your listeners are in a good cone of sound. Unfortunately, on Dolby's consumer site they show regular in ceilings but they tell a different story in their classes. Also, their demo room uses bookshelves angled towards the listeners for Atmos. Why didn't they just place the bookshelves aiming straight down? Look at any recording studio and you will notice their atmos speakers aim towards the listeners. This is what you need to replicate.

Atmos in most homes ican be tough if you have two rows of seating. In these situations I would place the speakers at ~30 degrees instead of 45 degrees to try and get decent coverage for both rows. I would still use speakers that angle 45 degrees. Unless you only care about the first row, you have to modify the specs a little for good sound everywhere. I don't know if you plan on having two rows, just mentioning it in case you do.

Many companies make angled in ceiling speakers. Normally, I would be all about matching all the speakers as closely as possible. However, in this situation if you want to use in ceiling speakers I wouldn't do it whether you go with Kef or Neumann. If you end up using these speakers, you're going to want to place them a lot closer than the 45°.

 

[IamJF]

There is a really high quality home cinema installer in Germany who does a lot of 7.1.2 systems. They show in a video that there is very rarely a movie which uses front and back height - mostly only height is active. Probably just to be compatible to different formats or easier in production ... but this seems to be wide spread.
With only one ceiling speaker row you avoid exactly these strong angles and are more free in your speaker selection. As we often just have 1-2 seating rows at home the effect is still good distributed - when you go bigger it's for sure a benefit to have 4 ceiling speakers.

With this background I would prefer to stick with the same type of speakers and use .2 instead of .4.

Edit - don't think that a KH150 + sub will deliver less volume as your R4C, R5! Kefs mid driver runs pretty low (200-250Hz) and while these are really tough and take a lot of power there is still a THD rise of K3 at 2-300Hz. When you compare THD curves at 96dB above 100Hz of KH150 and R4C both are similar good.

Neumann KH 150 Monitor Review

This is a review, listening tests and measurements of the Neumann KH150 DSP 2-way studio monitor (active speaker). It is on loan from the company and costs US $1,750 (each). The design language is not changed of course. The main woofer is 6.5 inches now powered by 120 watt dedicated...

www.audiosciencereview.com

KEF Reference 4C Review (Center Speaker)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the KEF Reference 4C Center home theater speaker. It was kindly purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me. 4C costs US $7,500. Apology for using stock picture. Speaker weighs 100 pounds and I got interrupted mid-review with our home...

www.audiosciencereview.com

That would still be 10k for KH150 and KH120ii without sub woofers (and Neumanns are very expensive) - but includes amps and reference measurement system and digital input.

Edit: Did a first listening test with my new KH120ii and I'm surprised that they are significant better as the older version. The liiittle nasty midrange is gone, sound stage is phantastic. Really recommend to give it a listen, if possible already in your room.

 

[Beershaun]

KEF Ci200RR-THX In-ceiling/In-Wall Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the KEF Ci200RR-THX in-ceiling/in-wall speaker. It was kindly sent to me by a member and costs US $999.99. Speaker has a luxurious feeling rubberized paint outside of the driver. Alas, as you see, it is a dust magnet. Fortunately you would cover the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Descartes]

Just got a new home and have an opportunity to rebuild/rearrange my home theater set up. Pretty clear winners here from Amir's reviews and I already own a few speakers, so I am comparing the following options for living room and home theater

I already own in my current home theater/multimedia room KEF Reference 5, Reference 4c, R3's, and Rhythmic FV18's, running through NAD m17v2i and Parasound Halo amps.

Option 1) I use my KEF Reference 5, Reference 4c, R3, and purchase some CI200RR-THX for in-ceiling atmos. Then purchase a new set of speakers for living room and bedroom, options being Magico A5, KEF Blades, Neumann KH 420 or KH150 + Rythmik sub, Dutch&Dutch 8c or Revel 328be. Much cheaper at ~9k-18k depending on which speaker combo's for the other rooms.

Option 2) I repurpose my KEF speakers for the living room and bedroom, then create a home theater around Neuman KH420, KH 310, and KH150's and pair them with KEF CI200RR-THX atmos speakers. Cost ~19k

My main questions for discussion aside from which route to go. How are Neumann speakers for home theater, specifically can they get high enough SPL? Should I use a difference DAC since my NAD m17v2i has Dirac and Neumann has a different DSP? Will the Neumann speakers mesh well w/ KEF in ceiling speakers? Are there other in ceiling speakers that might be a better option w/ Neumann speaker?

Option 1!

Or consider option 3, get
- 3 Genelec 8361 for front
- 6 Genelec 8351 for Surround
- 6 Genelec 8341 for Atmos & DTSX
- 5 Genelec W371A Woofers

 

[JRS]

Well if you're in Denver, you might give YG acoustics a call to see if they have any demo capability in their Arvada factory. The reference series might be two utilitarian looking for you given the cabs are all milled Aluminum. Here is their latest offering:

Most beautiful speakers in the world ?

I rather like the look of the Magico M series speakers.

www.audiosciencereview.com