Neumann Subwoofer KH 750 DSP : DSP power for all analog Neumann monitors

[hyperplanar]

Are there passive subwoofers that will provide me with the same performances or better? I also fear of running out of power from the monoblocs (2x40W).

Which problem will I be facing trying to connect active sub(s) to my monoblocks? Impedance?
Before looking at the KH750DSP I had other subs in mind that I thought I would be able to connect through their high-level connectors.

Here for the Elac 3070 the manual show (page 6) how to connect this active sub to an A/V receiver amp through speaker level-in : https://boutique.hifi-group.com/img/cms/Pages produits/ELAC/Sub 3070/elac-sub3070-manuel.pdf


Edit : Regarding my integration of the KH750 active sub, maybe I could send the analog signal from the RME ADI2 DAC FS through balanced XLRs to the balanced XLRs of the subwoofer. Then setting both a low-pass filter for the subwoofer and a high-pass filter for the sattelites (monoblocks) though XLRs output from the subwoofer. Then a XLR to RCA cable will feed the monoblocks amps.

Will this work?

Why though? The KH750's performance is not impressive at all for its price. It's only compelling as a solution to add a subwoofer and room correction to Neumann's active monitors. I have one, and it's amazing for my desktop KH120 setup, but I'm not going to pretend like a $500 SB1000 doesn't give the same or better acoustic performance. You should consider an SVS SB2000 (or similar—Hsu, Rythmik come to mind) instead for a "normal" system with passive speakers.

 

[mimaximax]

Thanks for the feedback! Harmonic distorsions, group delay, frequency response, what I understood was that few subs would be able to reach its performances. It is for a small room, having good power is great but I think I would privilege musicality and accuracy.

Rythmik or GR-Research are difficult to find/import here in Europe.
Maybe it is a myth but I read SVS subs have delay.
What about MK sound subs? Currently thinking of V10 and V12 as an alternative.

 

[PingWine]

Thanks for the feedback! Harmonic distorsions, group delay, frequency response, what I understood was that few subs would be able to reach its performances. It is for a small room, having good power is great but I think I would privilege musicality and accuracy.

Rythmik or GR-Research are difficult to find/import here in Europe.
Maybe it is a myth but I read SVS subs have delay.
What about MK sound subs? Currently thinking of V10 and V12 as an alternative.

The subs don't have much at all group delay. The little little amount of group delay SB-2000 had has been thoroughly bettered in the SB-2000 Pro even though the delay never really was audible in the first place. You can check and compare the measurements from Audioholics site.

 

[hyperplanar]

Thanks for the feedback! Harmonic distorsions, group delay, frequency response, what I understood was that few subs would be able to reach its performances. It is for a small room, having good power is great but I think I would privilege musicality and accuracy.

Rythmik or GR-Research are difficult to find/import here in Europe.
Maybe it is a myth but I read SVS subs have delay.
What about MK sound subs? Currently thinking of V10 and V12 as an alternative.

True, group delay is quite good. Frequency response goes down low for its size but it’s very easy to hear harmonic distortion at elevated levels 30 Hz and below. The sub doesn’t have much headroom for its price, essentially. Any frequency response unevenness in the potential sub alternatives would be EQed out with room correction anyway.

 

[Filtersweep]

Why though? The KH750's performance is not impressive at all for its price. It's only compelling as a solution to add a subwoofer and room correction to Neumann's active monitors. I have one, and it's amazing for my desktop KH120 setup, but I'm not going to pretend like a $500 SB1000 doesn't give the same or better acoustic performance. You should consider an SVS SB2000 (or similar—Hsu, Rythmik come to mind) instead for a "normal" system with passive speakers.

I’m really interested in this.

I currently have Neumann KH80dsp running with a REL r218 subwoofer. Both are attached to a Cambridge Audio DACmagic plus (balanced outputs to the KH80s and RCA to the sub). The KH80s therefore run full range and I have integrated the sub manually by lowering the crossover.
My question is would I benefit in terms of sound greatly by replacing the REL r218 with a KH750. This would relieve the KH80s of some bass duties and allow full room correction.

Or should I just keep the sub and replace the dac with something like a mini dsp - this would be the cheaper option. Apart from the dsp capabilities does the KH750 perform better than the rel r218?
Thanks for your help and advice. This forum is such a great source of information.

 

[LTig]

Relieving a sat from reproducing deep bass always improves performance of the mids due to less IMD due to lower excursion of the driver. It also allows to play them a little louder.

 

[Filtersweep]

Relieving a sat from reproducing deep bass always improves performance of the mids due to less IMD due to lower excursion of the driver. It also allows to play them a little louder.

Thanks LTig, I appreciate the reply.
Do think my best option would be to replace the sub with the KH750 or keep the REL and replace the dac with a mini dsp SHD?
Both subs have 10” drivers. The KH750 looks like it can extend a little lower (-6db at 18hz compared to about 25 hz with the REL).
The all Neumann option is very tempting!
All the best.

 

[LTig]

The KH750 looks like the perfect companion to the KH80, so if it's not too expensive why not.

 

[pozz]

The KH750 looks like the perfect companion to the KH80, so if it's not too expensive why not.

If only they made it in white.

 

[Filtersweep]

Just a brief update that I did go ahead and purchase the KH750 DSP.
Very happy! The bass management gives new life to the KH80s and the integration is fantastic.
First impressions is that the sub is very fast and controlled compared the REL.
I haven’t used the room correction yet but might get the MA-1 mic when the become a bit more widely available here is Australia.
Thanks again for the advice!

 

[Gurkerl]

Just a brief update that I did go ahead and purchase the KH750 DSP.
Very happy! The bass management gives new life to the KH80s and the integration is fantastic.
First impressions is that the sub is very fast and controlled compared the REL.
I haven’t used the room correction yet but might get the MA-1 mic when the become a bit more widely available here is Australia.
Thanks again for the advice!

What is your listening distance and room size? I've been looking (online) at all sorts of options for my ~60m³ room at a 2,5-3m listening distance, and wonder how the Neumann combo would compare.

 

[Filtersweep]

What is your listening distance and room size? I've been looking (online) at all sorts of options for my ~60m³ room at a 2,5-3m listening distance, and wonder how the Neumann combo would compare.

Hi Gurkerl,
My listening distance is about 2.8 m from each speaker, so within your range. The room is a large open plan area, ~5 x 9 x 2.5 m. I don't listen at high sound pressure levels but the system as whole doesn't sound "small." I have't really pushed it to high SPL yet (a task for this weekend!), however, It will never move enough air to get that punch in the stomach feeling like a club PA.
Overall, I'm really happy with it in the space, there is plenty of well controlled bass and with the sub the K80s can go a bit louder with more composure.

 

[Gurkerl]

Very interesting, that's quite a bit larger than my room! I was mainly looking at the KH 120, which would play a bit louder than the KH 80. If coupled with the KH 750 it also adds the DSP functionality into the system.
Expensive, but there doesn't seem to be a more complete package in that small form factor.

Do you use it mainly for music or also for movies?

 

[Joaquinín]

I have meditated a lot about getting one of these two combos (Kh750 + Kh80 or Kh 750 + Kh120). Do you think Neumann´s MA1 DSP is better than Dirac? As I am going to use Dirac, I suspect I could opt for Kh-80/120 + any other good and cheaper subwoofer, and the end result would be about the same...

 

[DJBonoBobo]

I have meditated a lot about getting one of these two combos (Kh750 + Kh80 or Kh 750 + Kh120). Do you think Neumann´s MA1 DSP is better than Dirac? As I am going to use Dirac, I suspect I could opt for Kh-80/120 + any other good and cheaper subwoofer, and the end result would be about the same...

I used Dirac 1 in a stereo-setup with the KH310 (without sub) some time ago and i never was satisfied with the result above Schroeder-frequency. I always thought it sounded artificial. I tried to find a good target curve for a long time, but not very successfully. Also, to use the Dirac-software was always a hassle when switching to headphones. I also had crackling issues with windows sound over some time, but i don´t know what part die dirac processor played in this. So i never directly compared it to the 310-750+MA1-combo.
But, i can say, the results of the MA1-correction sound immidiately correct and very good to me, over the whole spectrum, not only bass. Another advantage is that you don´t need software, plugins or whatever to run.
So i don´t say you can´t have the same results with dirac (maybe the new versions are better than what i experienced), but i think the Neumann-package is very good and very safe and easy. You have to consider the price of "750+MA1" against "cheaper sub + DSP + microphone + dirac-license". Personally i would only consider the route with cheaper subs if you want to buy multiple subs.

 

[ba7777]

Hope MA 1 will support double/multiple subs someday.

 

[Filtersweep]

Very interesting, that's quite a bit larger than my room! I was mainly looking at the KH 120, which would play a bit louder than the KH 80. If coupled with the KH 750 it also adds the DSP functionality into the system.
Expensive, but there doesn't seem to be a more complete package in that small form factor.

Do you use it mainly for music or also for movies?

I am using it mainly for music and a bit of hobby music production (setting up a laptop with Ableton on the coffee table!)
I was thinking about your first post again while listening the other day and 2.5-3 m is probably the limit for really critical listening for the KH80s. I find myself leaning forward a bit from the listening position to ~1.8 m and when I'm producing sit in at ~1.6-1.8 m, which is within the recommended distance on the Neumann site. So maybe the KH120 would suit your distance better.
I originally chose the KH80 over the KH120 because I found the midrange and and imaging a lot closer to the KH310s than the KH120s and I was planning on using a sub and listening at lower volumes.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

FYI the full review by Sound & Recording of the KH 750 DSP is now available for free and in english: https://de-de.neumann.com/product_files/9395/download

 

[Soundstage]

Can one use 2 of these subs in a 2.1 setup? Thanks.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Depends on their sex. Two females should be safe i think.
But to be sure i suggest reading the manual: https://de-de.neumann.com/product_files/9393/download