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Neumann Subwoofer KH 750 DSP : DSP power for all analog Neumann monitors

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#21
A few more infos if someone wants to know:
- iPad only, no iPhone
- crossover frequency can´t be changed yet (they promised to include this feature in future updates)
- there is a demo mode available: if you have an iPad and if you are considering buying the KH 750 (or KH 80), you can use the app and try out every setting, even if you don´t have the loudspeaker yet
- settings are stored in the device, so if you don´t have an ipad, you would be able to borrow one, make all adjustements and give the ipad back. If you want to use the loudspeaker in a different location afterwards and no ipad is available you can disable the stored network settings temporaryly and use the backplate-switches instead.

I like the app, but i´m experiencing some hickups, though. Sometimes the app disconnects from the speakers or doesn´t respond for some time. Because of that, i personally would not use the app as an everyday (remote) monitor controller, even it would be possible to do so, because it´s easy to control volume and so on for the whole system.
 
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#22
Would KH750's dsp work properly with other brand's active monitors or it needs to be Neumanns?
 

somebodyelse

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#23
It looks like the Manual Alignment settings would work with whatever active monitors you connect to the analog outs. I can't imagine they've added anything that lets them sense what's connected. For their own models they already know their properties so they can provide a sensible starting point via the Guided Alignment wizard, but the block diagram in post #2 looks pretty universal.

It's a pity Neumann didn't follow MOTU's approach with their AVB line - a browser-based configuration app and a documented API behind it for situations where their app doesn't do what you want.
 
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#24
I can't imagine they've added anything that lets them sense what's connected.
No, but you have to specify in the app what Neumann monitor is connected. You have to chose between KH80, 120, 310 and 420. There is no "other" or something. Of course you could connect different analog monitors, but i don´t know what it does to them. As far as i know the crossover-frequency depends on the chosen model. Up to this point i would guess that you can connect any similar product to the analogue outputs of the KH 750.
But the "unknown" part for me is this:
"DSP-based phase linearization also of the connected analog Neumann studio monitors for an even more transparent sound image." (https://en-de.neumann.com/kh-750-dsp). Somewhere else i read they use FIR filtering for this.
I don´t know what happens to the phase if you connect different monitors and if this would be a problem/audible. So i can´t answer @korynt ´s question.

All of the above only applies to the app. Backplate controls are always available and independent of the main monitors, of course.
 
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#25
@Habu
There is an option for an external measurement system in the app. Would it work with a mic connected to the ipad? (like umik-1)
 
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Habu

Habu

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Thread Starter #26
Hi korynt

I don't think so, In fact there are two alignments:

-Guided alignment, the user is asked very simple questions about the room and the loudspeaker / subwoofer position, and then the app adjusts the response of each loudspeaker/subwoofer accordingly.

- Manual alignment, the app allows access to an 8-band fully parametric equalizer, as well as complete freedom to adjust levels and delays in each loudspeaker/subwoofer, following the measurements provided by an external measurement system.

There is no option to use the microphone of the iPad or an external mic.

Video:
https://www.neumann.com/homestudio/en/getting-better-studio-sound-at-home-part-2

External article :
https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/pr...e-way-we-really-want-to-do-speaker-correction
 
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#27
Yea, I naively thought that "I have a third-party acoustical measurement system" means it's compatible with external mics. But it's just a fancy name for a manual alignment. There is also that Precision Alignment Kit, but I can't find any info on it. Maybe it's not out yet.
 

Attachments

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#28
Neumann originally announced not only the "PAK" but the software for Android and Windows as well. The release of the iPad-app itself had been late for a year or so, if i remember correctly. It looks to me as if they originally had a lot planned, but then after a while they spent less and less resources on the software. I wonder when they will understand that you can't rest on classic engeneering only. I don´t know if they abandoned the "PAK" or if they still planning to release it some day, but it´s not out yet. I think Neumann has very good products and also actually quite good software and I hope it will soon get more attention again.
 

Newman

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#29
Hello from France,nI have just created an account in this forum even if I was reading the posts since several months, there was so much to read, not yet anything to post!
Neumann has just released during the NAMM 2019 a new subwoofer...the KH 750 DSP.
Neumann KH 750 DSP Brochure
....
Looking at the above brochure, I notice that the spec sheet says -3 dB at 18 Hz, but on page 3 the response graph when coupled to the KH80 shows -18 dB at 20 Hz.

Why is that?

cheers
 

hyperplanar

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#30
Looking at the above brochure, I notice that the spec sheet says -3 dB at 18 Hz, but on page 3 the response graph when coupled to the KH80 shows -18 dB at 20 Hz.

Why is that?

cheers
The shape of the frequency response looks correct but the graph appears mislabeled. If you go start from the 20 kHz label and go right to left you'll see 20 and 10 kHz are correctly labeled, but then 5 kHz and below are offset incorrectly. The leftmost label for frequency should be 10 Hz here, not 20. I've verified myself with a microphone that the frequency response extension is as advertised.

The graph on the KH750's technical data page:
1592359106264.png
 

Newman

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#31
Thank you, that's much better.

Looking closely, I take your point. The labels on the brochure FR graph are spread out more than the grid lines, so that 20 kHz is correctly labelled, but the label '20 Hz' is actually on the 10 Hz grid line.

All is well in the world again! :)
 

CtheArgie

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#32
So, because I am tempted, can you use it with other monitors? I have EVE Audios SC207 and it would be great if I could use them with this one. Any idea?
The EVE Audio reach relatively low in my smallish room, but I would love and extra "kick" and being able to limit the EVE's a little in the bass.
 

mimaximax

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#38
Would this subwoofer fully work with "standard" HiFi? I would like to connect it to tubes monoblock amps (or directly to a RME ADI2 DAC FS maybe) :



Is the DSP compatible with Windows already?
 

JustJones

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#39
Would this subwoofer fully work with "standard" HiFi? I would like to connect it to tubes monoblock amps (or directly to a RME ADI2 DAC FS maybe) :



Is the DSP compatible with Windows already?
You can connect the RME but there is an amp in the subwoofer as well as a DAC. If you want to connect tube amps to a subwoofer you need a passive not active.
 

mimaximax

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#40
Are there passive subwoofers that will provide me with the same performances or better? I also fear of running out of power from the monoblocs (2x40W).

Which problem will I be facing trying to connect active sub(s) to my monoblocks? Impedance?
Before looking at the KH750DSP I had other subs in mind that I thought I would be able to connect through their high-level connectors.

Here for the Elac 3070 the manual show (page 6) how to connect this active sub to an A/V receiver amp through speaker level-in : https://boutique.hifi-group.com/img/cms/Pages produits/ELAC/Sub 3070/elac-sub3070-manuel.pdf


Edit : Regarding my integration of the KH750 active sub, maybe I could send the analog signal from the RME ADI2 DAC FS through balanced XLRs to the balanced XLRs of the subwoofer. Then setting both a low-pass filter for the subwoofer and a high-pass filter for the sattelites (monoblocks) though XLRs output from the subwoofer. Then a XLR to RCA cable will feed the monoblocks amps.

Will this work?
 
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