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Neumann KH420 Review (Studio Monitor)

Rate this speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 3 0.6%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 29 5.6%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 488 93.5%

  • Total voters
    522

Waxx

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You can use RCA out as long as you use a device to mate the connection to XLR. Many people use a passive converter, but I use a device like this Matchbox from Henry Engineering:
You can even just make a cable from rca to xlr like in this diagram:

CLA705_visio.png


It's not optimal, you will loose some volume (onlty a little), but the sound will come trough unaltered like a non balanced signal and more prone to distrbances by magnetic fields and radiation. But for short distances (<3m) it won't matter that much, and even a bit longer can work right.
 

Ciobi69

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Ciobi69

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You can even just make a cable from rca to xlr like in this diagram:

CLA705_visio.png


It's not optimal, you will loose some volume (onlty a little), but the sound will come trough unaltered like a non balanced signal and more prone to distrbances by magnetic fields and radiation. But for short distances (<3m) it won't matter that much, and even a bit longer can work right.
didn't know that, even better
 
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Pio

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Ciobi69

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Pio

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So... The consensus here is that KH420 is better than 8361?
Don't know about consensus, but for me, I prefer the KH420. Plus, for me.. I can't get past the look of the Genny.
 

Ciobi69

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Don't know about consensus, but for me, I prefer the KH420. Plus, for me.. I can't get past the look of the Genny.
I prefer the look of the Neumann myself, but the genelec have their design in certain situations is very cool, also i did like a lot the concrete stand made by an user here, the picture is in the thread
 

Muddywaters

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Here's my current thoughts (which might change tomorrow :oops:):

Are you listening to music with subs?
- I'd get the 8351/8361 (+ music subs) for music playback in a living room, since it's more compact form factor than KH420/S360. So for music, by going with 8351/8361 (+ music subs), you won't require the S360/KH420's higher dynamic handling, extra amplifier power, and larger cabinet volumes. By going with Genelec Ones, you gain vertical directivity (which is important if you're walking around the room and listening to music, instead of sitting in one spot), smaller form factor (can be placed in most living rooms without issues) and looks (I think the eggs are very pleasing to look at). Any decent-measuring subs will help 8351/8361 deal with room modes (frequency dips and peaks). Deepest frequency extension is not needed for music playback (unlike for movies where 20hz extension in the bass and at reference levels, is the goal). So you can choose subwoofers that aren't as capable for music playback as subs needed for movies. So you save some money on subs here. By "music subs", I mean subs capable of outputting down to 25hz, since music rarely goes lower, unlike movies which extend to 20hz.
- Neumann KH310 (+ music subs) can also be used here, but I'm choosing Genelec Ones due to their smaller form factor mostly. I think the eggs are more aesthetically pleasing to fit in a typical living room than KH310. :p KH310 don't need the dynamics of KH420, so they'll work for music playback with no issues.

Are you listening to music and don't want subs?
- I can see the appeal of KH420 (with no subs) for music playback in your living room, because they go down to 24hz (at -6db point)(anechoic) (which means in room, with boundary gain it will be deeper) which is enough of extension for music listening. This is a lower extension than Genelec 8361 (which is 27hz) or S360 (which is 35hz). In terms of output, KH420 would have plenty of volume (in SPL) for music listening. This is because KH420 can already output enough volume for movies at reference level, so music playback (which is usually at lower SPL) is no problem. KH420 is an option if you can accept the large sized speaker in your living room. This is a deal breaker for my living room, but everyone's use case is different.
- Genelec S360 (with no subs) is not recommended for music, since it's -6db point is 35hz (or +11hz higher than KH420), so eventhough it has enough output, it just doesn't extend very low, so you'll need to add music subs just to match KH420's extension.
- Genelec 8361 (with no subs) can be considered here, since it's -6db point is 27hz. I personally think 8361 still needs subs, but I can see a person thinking this can work as well.

Are you watching movies with reference level of playback?
- For higher than music level of playback, meaning for movie reference level of playback, KH420/S360 (+ movie subs) are needed. In a home theater, cabinet volume doesnt matter (it’s assumed your home theater room is big enough to have such large speakers placed without issues) and vertical directivity is not important (if you’re watching movies, you’re sitting down and not moving around, so vertical directivity is less critical). The goal for movies is to achieve 20hz bass extension, and at reference level of playback, which means capable subwoofers are needed, ideally 15" or higher woofers. Two subwoofers will be needed to even out the room modes (frequency peaks and dips) and to hit reference level of playback (down to 20hz and with plenty of output). You’ll need to spend more money to get the "movie subs" (down to 20hz) for movies.
- Genelec 8361 (+ movie subs) can also be used for movies, as we've seen by Sancus's home theater build and noted in the post above.

Important note:
1. A lot of these speakers can be used for movie playback. But I think if you start talking about the most capable speakers that can be used, you have to exclude speakers. For example, both KH310 and KH420 can be used for reference level of movie playback. KH420 would handle dynamics better and with better distortion handling than KH310. So we can exclude KH310 from this discussion. But in reality, KH310 is a very capable speaker, so I'm not completely dismissing it just because it's a bad speaker. Ahh, speaker recommendations are hard.
2. Hard for me to say what is music playback I'm referring to, but if we assume you're listening to -10db from reference level (of your AVR) for movies, then I would assume -15db to -20db for music playback.

You can use my 'subwoofer comparison' spreadsheet to find subs for either movie or music playback.

Peace. :)
Thanks @sweetchaos for your summary.

I’m in the process of rebuilding our home after 40 inches of Hurricane Ian surge took almost everything. These speakers are on my shortlist. I’ve started my own thread to to investigate finding room treatments and speakers that best fit my room here: Thoughts

Maybe your list or thoughts have changed since that was many tomorrow’s back? :)
 

teashea

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Yes - interesting stuff. It is also interesting how difference pleasure listening is from studio work regarding all of this. There is some overlap though.
 

HairyEars

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Cloudy vagueness and Genelec in the same sentence ?
To me they have the most clarity
His next sentence clarified the point:

“Most people's intuitive reasoning blames the bass drivers exciting the back of the large waveguide plate and introducing re-radiation.”

I related that fact to you some years ago. I referred to it as “reverb” and got a lot of flake for it. Apparently, more than one person perceives that said re-radiation. I love Genelec—an outstanding company. But it’s only MDF for me—measurements be damned.

As for a question you posted elsewhere, IMO the 410 sounds more sterile compared to the 1237. Some people might like it—good on them—but I find the 1237 notably more musical. I don’t mix or do any professional work, so the latter attribute is more important for me. If I had to analyze it through the lenses of music production, I would care less about it.
 
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HairyEars

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I have a pair of 1032A’s, manufacture date is 2007 so 15 years and counting. Working great, but as far as I’m aware Genelec is still servicing these as needed. The model is actually still in production albeit as the “C” iteration. Class D amps now but drivers and cabinet are still the same. I actually just got a pair of grills for mine from Genelec.
I’ve just had Genelec replace a perfectly functioning woofer on my 1030A due to a cracked rubber edge. Can’t neglect my babies. The monitor is 23 years old.
 

Pearljam5000

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His next sentence clarified the point:

“Most people's intuitive reasoning blames the bass drivers exciting the back of the large waveguide plate and introducing re-radiation.”

I related that fact to you some years ago. I referred to it as “reverb” and got a lot of flake for it. Apparently, more than one person perceives that said re-radiation. I love Genelec—an outstanding company. But it’s only MDF for me—measurements be damned.

As for a question you posted elsewhere, IMO the 410 sounds more sterile compared to the 1237. Some people might like it—good on them—but I find the 1237 notably more musical. I don’t mix or do any professional work, so the latter attribute is more important for me. If I had to analyze it through the lenses of music production, I would care about it less.
Amir needs to review the 1237 :)
 

Waxx

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His next sentence clarified the point:

“Most people's intuitive reasoning blames the bass drivers exciting the back of the large waveguide plate and introducing re-radiation.”

I related that fact to you some years ago. I referred to it as “reverb” and got a lot of flake for it. Apparently, more than one person perceives that said re-radiation. I love Genelec—an outstanding company. But it’s only MDF for me—measurements be damned.

As for a question you posted elsewhere, IMO the 410 sounds more sterile compared to the 1237. Some people might like it—good on them—but I find the 1237 notably more musical. I don’t mix or do any professional work, so the latter attribute is more important for me. If I had to analyze it through the lenses of music production, I would care less about it.
I think it's reverse. I prefer the Klein & Hummel O410 and it's successor the Neumann KH420 far above the big Genelecs like the 1237. Those sound clinical and fatiguing to my ears like all older Genelec designs. But all are on a level that it's more subjective than objective data that makes the difference i think. If i was searching in that market segment, the KH420 is a no brainer for me and Genelec 1237 not an option. But if you like reverse, that is your problem... ;)
 

HairyEars

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I think it's reverse. I prefer the Klein & Hummel O410 and it's successor the Neumann KH420 far above the big Genelecs like the 1237. Those sound clinical and fatiguing to my ears like all older Genelec designs. But all are on a level that it's more subjective than objective data that makes the difference i think. If i was searching in that market segment, the KH420 is a no brainer for me and Genelec 1237 not an option. But if you like reverse, that is your problem... ;)
You usually say “more power to you,” not “it’s your problem.” No room for verbal burbs over one’s preferences. As you said more wisely, it’s a subjective opinion. Enjoy yours and I’ll enjoy mine.
 

Pearljam5000

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I think it's reverse. I prefer the Klein & Hummel O410 and it's successor the Neumann KH420 far above the big Genelecs like the 1237. Those sound clinical and fatiguing to my ears like all older Genelec designs. But all are on a level that it's more subjective than objective data that makes the difference i think. If i was searching in that market segment, the KH420 is a no brainer for me and Genelec 1237 not an option. But if you like reverse, that is your problem... ;)
One man's clinical is another's musical :)
Have you compared 8361 to KH420? Thanks
 

Waxx

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No, i only heared the much smaller 8341, and not at the same time as the KH420 so impossible to compare (as far as listening test are valid off course). But the 83xx series of Genelec are by far the best ones of the bunch in my book, but still got the Genelec thing that make my ears fatigue relative fast. For the rest they are great very neutral speakers like almost all Genelecs of today.

Neumann and the old Klein & Hummel precestor don't have that. I can listen for hours to those without any trace of ear fatigue while they are as clean and neutral as Genelec. They also sound less clinical than Genelec in general to my ears.

But like said, it's subjective/personal on this very high level of technical perfection. So my impression may not be the same as yours (like mentioned above). If you want to know what suits you best you need to hear them both. Both are top level options on objective level, and the difference is more personal, practical and subjective i think.
 

Pio

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One man's clinical is another's musical :)
Have you compared 8361 to KH420? Thanks
I love the 420's more and more everyday.. enjoying them right now as I get ahead on some work..
 

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Ra1zel

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I don't think you can necessarily go wrong with either. It's a matter of preference at that kind of performance.
I'd say it boils down to whether you intend to use your speakers in near or far field
 
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