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Neumann KH420 Review (Studio Monitor)

Rate this speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 3 0.6%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 29 5.6%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 488 93.5%

  • Total voters
    522

thewas

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Which is more common in studios in general Genelec or Neumann?
Just from an observatory feeling I would say Genelec is in total more known around the world, while Neumann/K+H is rather popular in the German speaking countries.
 

fineMen

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Even if you apply an equalizer to both speaks they will still sound differently.
Sure, but by how much, and not the least: why?

It could only be the direct sound, as the diffuse in-room response would be the same., once equalised.

Does a dB here or there actually matter? The difference may be accessible to a well trained critical listener and evaluator of stereo equipment. But would such a tiny bit make or destroy a recording of music as an art form? Especially as nearly all people enjoy their preferred entertainment without a clue what sound is ...
 

Inner Space

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Which is more common in studios in general Genelec or Neumann?
In my experience, mostly U.S. based, of the two, they're numerically about equal. Maybe slightly more Neumann. I have three operations running, music, movie + TV, and specialist ADR. Personally I'm now mostly retired, so I let my people choose what to use (I just pay the bill) and as an observation, of the two, I see voice-critical jobs migrating toward Genelec, and music-critical toward Neumann. Make of that what you will ...
 

Frgirard

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Sure, but by how much, and not the least: why?

It could only be the direct sound, as the diffuse in-room response would be the same., once equalised.

Does a dB here or there actually matter? The difference may be accessible to a well trained critical listener and evaluator of stereo equipment. But would such a tiny bit make or destroy a recording of music as an art form? Especially as nearly all people enjoy their preferred entertainment without a clue what sound is ...
the bass frequency reproduction doens't take care about diffuse field and direct sound.

and

when i listen my KH, i listen a speaker not a mid or a tweeter separatly but a frequency content between 30/40 Hz and 12 Khz.
 

Frgirard

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In my experience, mostly U.S. based, of the two, they're numerically about equal. Maybe slightly more Neumann. I have three operations running, music, movie + TV, and specialist ADR. Personally I'm now mostly retired, so I let my people choose what to use (I just pay the bill) and as an observation, of the two, I see voice-critical jobs migrating toward Genelec, and music-critical toward Neumann. Make of that what you will ...
even Streaky use Neumann Kh420

 

DJBonoBobo

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I would be interested to know why someone from the professional sector would decide against Genelec (8361) and in favor of Neumann (KH420). On paper, Genelec seems to me to have a slight advantage, and I suspect that money is not so relevant in such a decision.
There are a few testimonials from people who have chosen Neumann describing the advantages, but I have yet to see a comparison where someone deliberately chose, for example, against the 8361 and for the KH420.
Are these personal preferences? Maybe a preference towards an analog speaker? Is the overall Neumann package perhaps more balanced when thinking about Atmos installations, for example? Or are there really tangible advantages of the KH420 over the 8361 in a professional setting where money is secondary and where subwoofers are also used?
Or is it perhaps simply the case that a Neumann system is sufficient for most as a tool and meets all the requirements for working well with it, and therefore one simply does not necessarily need the more expensive tool, even if it might be minimally better?
Has someone seen such a comparison from professionals?
 
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Pearljam5000

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I would be interested to know why someone from the professional sector would decide against Genelec (8361) and in favor of Neumann (KH420). On paper, Genelec seems to me to have a slight advantage, and I suspect that money is not so relevant in such a decision.
There are a few testimonials from people who have chosen Neumann describing the advantages, but I have yet to see a comparison where someone deliberately chose, for example, against the 8361 and for the KH420.
Are these personal preferences? Maybe a preference towards an analog speaker? Is the overall Neumann package perhaps more balanced when thinking about Atmos installations, for example? Or are there really tangible advantages of the KH420 over the 8361 in a professional setting where money is secondary and where subwoofers are also used?
Has someone seen such a comparison from professionals?
Pros choose what "translates" better for them.
It's a personal choice, some hate Genelec and some love them
Some hate the sound of Neumann but keep using it as tool
There's a ton threads about it on Gearslutz
 

F1308

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Sure, but by how much, and not the least: why?

It could only be the direct sound, as the diffuse in-room response would be the same., once equalised.

Does a dB here or there actually matter? The difference may be accessible to a well trained critical listener and evaluator of stereo equipment. But would such a tiny bit make or destroy a recording of music as an art form? Especially as nearly all people enjoy their preferred entertainment without a clue what sound is ...

It is great to know a maker do design, build and sale a loudspeaker as great as this.

Now, please make yourself comfortable and think of the many composers that went to bed asking if that chord there should be D2-D3 or D3-D4, that is an octave apart in range, becomingly unable to fall asleep.

Now you are the listener...You are not going to say D3-D4 would have been much better than the heard D2-D3 the composer finally opted on, are you ? I mean, may be you are a musician and have a saying, but most people aren't.

Same goes for the rest of the cleff.
You here something, you like it or not, but will never know if something went missing or boosted...

The reds shown by LG, Samsung, Sony, etc are at times different when seen at the shop, but once at home red is red and that is it.

Another issue: you get quickly acustumed and forget the initially perceived quality, becoming your plain new normal, requiring another try on another (car, boat, TV, headphones, house... whatever) to appreciate it again...

A friend of mine thought the pistol shots he have heard for months were appropriate, until by chance 1812 was played on my system as he payed a visit.
 
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mmi

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What sort of twisted mind do you have to have to link a perfectly reasonable and sensible comment by a German manufacturer with another manufacturer's product in a recording studio in the UK?
Ahem. You are the one twisting Neumann’s quote out of context to suit your narrative, don’t be a hypocrite.

Can you please explain this icon on the Neumann website in the “Suited For” section of a product page:

F1C87532-34DB-40E3-BC8C-1FF84588B137.jpeg
 

hardisj

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Also the B&W in Abby Road is not the standard one that you can buy, the crossover is tweaked a lot to fit the needs of Abby Road (less bright, so flatter in response).

Not saying I don't believe it... just curious if you have evidence for this. Would be good to have in my "bag" if needed at some point.

TIA.
 

Inner Space

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I would be interested to know why someone from the professional sector would decide against Genelec (8361) and in favor of Neumann (KH420) ... are there really tangible advantages of the KH420 over the 8361 in a professional setting where money is secondary and where subwoofers are also used?
There are three use cases in the pro world - tracking, mixing, mastering - and any DSP that introduces latency (i.e. delays to fix phase between drivers or to integrate subwoofers) isn't great for tracking, because the tiny sound-in sound-out delay can produce a kind of seasick feeling in the operator, which gets unpleasant and fatiguing very fast. So the desire not to buy separate set-ups for separate use cases introduces a slight initial bias against DSP-dependent units or combos.

But that doesn't matter for mixing and mastering, where perceived see-through clarity is king, and the very slight tentative consensus against the Genelec Ones comes from a perceived cloudy vagueness in the bass and mid-bass. Most people's intuitive reasoning blames the bass drivers exciting the back of the large waveguide plate and introducing re-radiation.

Which leaves the KH420 as a big, capable, straightforward proposition, with excellent clarity and no perceived deficiencies.

Certainly money is irrelevant - after deductibility as business expenses, depreciation, write-downs, etc, all speakers end up costing very little.

All that said, I acknowledge that pro opinions can be just as nuts as anyone else's. Personally I hate all loudspeakers - all are hideously incapable of reproducing live sound. We fool ourselves if we think otherwise.
 

williamwally

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Amazing! It is nice to see speakers like this that do so many things well, and be worth their high cost. I would assume the very narrow vertical dispersion dip would be inaudible in the midfield they're designed for.
I wonder how the DSL Studio 2's would compare?
 

Pearljam5000

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Cloudy vagueness and Genelec in the same sentence ?
To me they have the most clarity
 

F1308

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All that said, I acknowledge that pro opinions can be just as nuts as anyone else's. Personally I hate all loudspeakers - all are hideously incapable of reproducing live sound. We fool ourselves if we think otherwise.
Same thinking than yours.

I can't put up with loudspeakers playing nearly everywhere at unbearable levels that bring distortion and nothing but distortion.

Curiously, I once found myself attending a "brass concert" where teenagers where the players and enjoyed it very much without anything at all bothering my very delicate ears regardless of the involved extremely high loudness I was very well aware of.
 

DSJR

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Not saying I don't believe it... just curious if you have evidence for this. Would be good to have in my "bag" if needed at some point.

TIA.
There were comments a few years back in the Ken Rockwell review of the older original 805 model* that the pro 'black ash' ones had a slightly different balance to the 'warmer' walnut versions. No idea if there's any truth to this though ;) There is truth in the sponsorship/loan suggestion though, as 'Polygram' as it was, used 801's and M801's that I believe were on a permanent loan scenario. No idea now, or even if the current record company owner even has their own mastering facilities.


* (Nice heard below tweeter axis but above axis, the tweeter kind-of 'detached' from the midrange and 'lifted up' in an alarming and surprising way. The similar priced ATC 20's didn't do it when th elistener stood up and neither did the more domestic orientated Jamo Concert 8)
 

DWI

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Ahem. You are the one twisting Neumann’s quote out of context to suit your narrative, don’t be a hypocrite.

Can you please explain this icon on the Neumann website in the “Suited For” section of a product page:

View attachment 204194
I didn't quote Neumann out of context, I provided the link, but someone decided Neumann was talking about B&W and Abbey Road, which they never mention or even imply. There seems to be a lot of hate for B&W. Why would that be?

What has the KH120AW got to do with anything?

Neumann's Chief of Icons has decided that the KH420 is OK for domestic use, but not for home studio use. How does that agree with the "myth" that there is no difference between studio and home use?

He's obviously got his icons in a twist and will soon be looking for a new job.

It just seems that some people don't like the idea that Neumann, a brand that they revere, accept that there are differences between speakers used to master and play back music. I quote: "Pop music is made to be played back on home stereo systems. Wouldn’t it make sense to use the same kind of hi-fi speakers for monitoring and mixing? Yet recording professionals prefer dedicated monitor speakers for studio work. Here’s why!"

They accept the difference between subjective listening (I quote: "All that matters is the listeners’ subjective impression") and objective mastering.

For some people subjective and objective will lead to the same speaker.

Audiophiles often say that choosing a speaker based on measurements is just as subjective as choosing it based on listening.

To some extent it's just playing with names and words, but it's often the same engineers just designing different speakers for different uses that result in different design objectives.

I've listen to and owned monitor speakers, even once had a pair of Alesis actives in the house, subjectively I generally find them hard work and tend to be fatiguing. Even Focal, which lots of audiophiles love, I found fatiguing. The reason for there being so many consumer brands is I suspect due to genuine subjective differences, whereas monitors have much tighter performance criteria.
 
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fineMen

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Most people's intuitive reasoning blames the bass drivers exciting the back of the large waveguide plate and introducing re-radiation.
What people say ...

Certainly money is irrelevant - after deductibility as business expenses, depreciation, write-downs, etc, all speakers end up costing very little.
For private use the case is different ;-)

Personally I hate all loudspeakers - all are hideously incapable of reproducing live sound. We fool ourselves if we think otherwise.
I personally think the sentence was more to the point, if the technique of "stereo" as a whole is blamed. Microphone type, position, stereo schema, compression (necessary) and more, and uncertainties regarding taste, preoccupations and so on from the side of the sound-engineer, who has way more degrees of freedom in actively designing a recording than the regular consumer might expect.
 

FrantzM

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One more thing : The Neuman can be just propped on any flat surface, be it a stand, a table or a stool , albeit a cryogenically treated wood stool such as the one @amirm use :D... Can the same be done with Genelec "The One"... any model? Don't they require special footing? OR some other accessories?
It's good to see Neumann speakers eliciting so much response. They deserve their lofty status. Now I'd like to see a review of the famed Geithain RL801K...
 
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