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Neumann KH420 Review (Studio Monitor)

Rate this speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 3 0.6%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 29 5.6%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 488 93.5%

  • Total voters
    522

DWI

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I beg to differ, You appear to be applying your preference for shiny veneers over sound quality, personally I couldn’t give a toss how speakers look in my domestic environment as evidenced by my choice and setup, along with the 18 panels or so of GIK acoustic treatment in my living room.

Personally I love the styling of them, all the money spent on what matters and and an utter disregard for expensive bullshit veneers is something I can heartily applaud.

As an additional aside I was browsing through the online reviews of the recent Axpona hifi show and every single “supposedly high end” speaker/system I saw was absolutely gopping in their panderance to visible expenditure, all big n’ shiny extravagant trinkets with big ‘n shiny price tickets attached, it’s no wonder the subject of high end audiophool equipment deserves the derision it gets from those who who actually produce/engineer the music that is played back on such equipment.

Neumann themselves sum it up perfectly:

They say:
“When music professionals listen to music, they do it with a different mindset than music consumers. Enthusiasts simply want to enjoy the music they love as best as they can. It doesn’t really matter if the sound they hear is an accurate reproduction of what the artist intended. All that matters is the listeners’ subjective impression. Most music consumers therefore prefer speakers that seem to enhance their listening experience.”

Neumann if anyone should know, they’ve been making recording equipment for almost a century. Im not sure I’ve read such a clear explanation of the difference between professional monitors and home stereo speakers. Neumann clearly don’t think it’s a myth.

It doesn’t mean you can‘t set up your home stereo like a recording studio, as you seem to have done, but the vast majority of people without dedicated listening rooms don’t. FWIW, I don’t have any veneer on my speakers or any shiny audio (rather dull units hidden away controlled remotely), so your comments seem somewhat prejudiced.
 

mmi

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Well there actually are, and i am not familiar with them, maybe others can comment, but a pair of these consum 120W when iddle, slightly higher than 0.5W... and i am not certain they have a stanby mode (maybe they do).

Othet than that, if you don't have kids, they might be ok... :D
View attachment 204007
Lol good point. They can kill and maim you with power and spl! Did you find the line “not suited for home environment due to brutal alien aesthetic” ?
 
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DWI

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The studio monitor part (which used to be Klein + Hummel) is not so long belonging to Sennheiser (which renamed the monitor products from K+H to Neumann).
Neumann were acquired by Sennheiser in 1991?
 

mmi

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Neumann were acquired by Sennheiser in 1991?
And Klein and Hummel, the company that produced the studio monitors line that was folded into the Neumann microphone company banner in 2009, was purchased by Sennheiser in 2005.
 

DWI

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How many Neumann Monitors do you have listened to in this spaces?
What has Neumann got to do with the statement ”Every speaker will sound terrible if the room is not treated.”? This statement is clearly untrue. Neumann’s article posted above explains why it is untrue.
 

thewas

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Neumann were acquired by Sennheiser in 1991?
Neumann didn't produce studio monitors, as written above the studio monitor part comes from Klein + Hummel which was acquired much later by Sennheiser and was then also given the brand name Neumann.
 

hmt

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What has Neumann got to do with the statement ”Every speaker will sound terrible if the room is not treated.”? This statement is clearly untrue. Neumann’s article posted above explains why it is untrue.

You were implying that the Neumann LS won't sound good in an untreated environment.
 

fineMen

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The 8C and Kii3 both have controlled low frequency directivity, which is a significant feature for domestic uses ...

I really doubt that. I've never seen any logical argumentation, let alone true measurements promoting this topic. It is a short-cut assumption.

My counter-argument(s)--take with a grain of salt, as not any valid or even understandable pro-arguments are given yet:

1) In order to achieve a smoother low frequency response one has to maximise the number of reflections with different path lengths to the listener's ears.
- The more directive the radiation is, the more discrete the reflections are, the less other reflections can counteract a subsequent interference, leaving more deep nulls or singled out peaks.
- In regards to the Schroeder-frequency, less reflections by more narrow radiation makes the room virtually smaller.
- The less directive a speaker, the higher the likelihood that an arbitrary reflection would in parts compensate for an others reflection in regards to the undesirable nulls and peaks.

2) A less broad radiation in bass departs from the suspected radiation pattern in the studio, or as the studio anticipated it to meet at the listener's home, by that shifting the tonal balance to more lean than was intended by the sound engineer, interfering with his art, basically spoiling "high fidelity" literally.

8C and Kii3 might pose amazing technological feats, but as always, that doesn't mean they are preferable in a given context, which readily and (Olive score) successfully adopted to a less "optimal" standard. Whatever "optimal" should mean anyway, besides an ideological aspiration.
 
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FeddyLost

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Better price performance ratio?
When i bought my kh420 a proac d28 costed the same price.
What exactly have better price/performance ratio?
I don't understand your point.

IMO, price/performance ratio heavily depends on use case, needs and existing setup.
For sure, some boutique speakers like D28 are suboptimal, even if we just look for test with measurements and compare them with decent monitors. They are really bad as control unit.
 

AudioJester

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The 8C and Kii3 both have controlled low frequency directivity, which is a significant feature for domestic uses where thick enough room treatment or ideal positioning to handle SBIR is less practical.

Basically they will interact with the room less between 100-500hz. The Genelec 8361A has slightly better LF directivity than the KH420(emphasis on slightly... it's not a cardioid design but the dual woofers help a bit).

They all have various DSP/room correction features that the KH420 does not as well, if that matters to you, but I wouldn't say those impact audio quality *directly*(you can use Dirac or REW separately with the KH420).

KH420
index.php

8361A
index.php

8C
Dutch%20%26%20Dutch%208c%20Horizontal%20Contour%20Plot%20%28normalized%29.png

Kii3
Kii%20THREE%20Horizontal%20Contour%20Plot%20%28Normalized%29.png
Thankyou, thats a great summary.
I use convolution filters in Roon, so 100-500Hz can be addressed, well at least peaks. Dips require multiple bass sources in my room . Looks like KiiThree is the winner in the low controlled directivity scheme.
 

Frgirard

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What exactly have better price/performance ratio?
I don't understand your point.

IMO, price/performance ratio heavily depends on use case, needs and existing setup.
For sure, some boutique speakers like D28 are suboptimal, even if we just look for test with measurements and compare them with decent monitors. They are really bad as control unit.
Components, design and measurement.
 

Frgirard

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What exactly have better price/performance ratio?
I don't understand your point.

IMO, price/performance ratio heavily depends on use case, needs and existing setup.
For sure, some boutique speakers like D28 are suboptimal, even if we just look for test with measurements and compare them with decent monitors. They are really bad as control unit.
They are bad like all the proac. I knew studio 200,response 3.5,d15 d28 and response. Expensive kit assembly.
The decoration increase strongly the price. In hi-fi, the visual aspect is the first parameter researched.
The focal by exemple? How much for the sopra box?
The yellow in 6 layers changes it the performance?
 

Streamc

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This is fascinating! In my office I have two 310s running with two 750s. Yes, the bass makes your private parts shake. And now we get these incredible speakers for $11k. That include amplification.

So, this makes me wonder again why those who call themselves "audiophiles" avoid speakers like this. Maybe they are more interested in the visual appeal than the sound itself. If they were truly interested in sound, they shouldn't ignore these. Just think about it, the passive FR-30 for $30k or these for $11k! Bewildering.

It is another example of why I have eternal gratitude to ASR, most posters and especially @amirm that they guided me away of stupid and expensive mythology.
Best speaker in the world?
 

mmi

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Any speakers that can rival good headphones in the distortion variable?
Not independently tested, but a local for me (Aus) maker on my shortlist for my upgrade has made eliminating distortion his mission. As far as I know it is rare to provide distortion measurements, smoothed or not. I’ve heard an old pair of his bookshelves and they were amazing to my ears for what that is worth, trying to audition this 3-way soon. Note the DB level:

1651488027124.png


 

FeddyLost

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Components, design and measurement
I need to add that production volume and options can significantly increase price without any benefits for some users.
That's why I don't own a studio sub: they are too pricey for displacement they offer.

Regarding mentioned speakers, it looks like D28 is just bad design. Putting BM165.1-like woofer into largest possible enclosure with deep bass intent will not give a perfection. Especially with high crossover point.
 

lherrm

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Neumann themselves sum it up perfectly:

It doesn’t mean you can‘t set up your home stereo like a recording studio, as you seem to have done, but the vast majority of people without dedicated listening rooms don’t. FWIW, I don’t have any veneer on my speakers or any shiny audio (rather dull units hidden away controlled remotely), so your comments seem somewhat prejudiced.
Neumann basically says a monitor is trying to be accurate (and preserve dynamic) whereas a home speaker tends not to.
I am not reading this as : a monitor is not suitable in a home environment. If someone is looking for high fidelity, it would still be the best choice.
I don't see either where/why a monitor should need more room treatment than a home speaker.
 
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DWI

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The 8C and Kii3 both have controlled low frequency directivity, which is a significant feature for domestic uses where thick enough room treatment or ideal positioning to handle SBIR is less practical.
I really doubt that. I've never seen any logical argumentation, let alone true measurements promoting this topic. It is a short-cut assumption.
@Sancus is making the point that Sparky (Neil Gould) makes in his professional review, to which I referred and is now posted at 420 above.

He has the Kii3 (with bass units) and these 420 in his studio and said the 420 are more immersive and need more room treatment, which is why I also made the observation that the Kii 3 are most likely to work better in typical homes with little or no treatment.

I looked at buying the Kii3 and listened to them in a properly treated studio at a pro dealer, but my better half still vetoed them.
 

Slyman

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@Sancus is making the point that Sparky (Neil Gould) makes in his professional review, to which I referred and is now posted at 420 above.

He has the Kii3 (with bass units) and these 420 in his studio and said the 420 are more immersive and need more room treatment, which is why I also made the observation that the Kii 3 are most likely to work better in typical homes with little or no treatment.

I looked at buying the Kii3 and listened to them in a properly treated studio at a pro dealer, but my better half still vetoed them.
Like ofcourse the 420 needs more treatment Kii3 has active DSP.
 

Waxx

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The Neumann is mainly targeted at the studio market, you see it in how you connect your stuff to it (XLR balanced in) and in the lack of interest in how it looks, but i also don't see why you can't use monitors like this one in a home envirroment. Genelec is also mainly targeted at studio crowd, but noticed that they were popular with hifi objectivists also and adapted their marketing and sales department to it.

And studio monitors have always been used by a section of the hifi crowd also, going back to the Altec Lansing Big Red and the Urei 809 monitors. Idem with the Klein + Hummel monitors that were the precestor of this KH420, they were used a lot for hifi also back in the days? And the legendaric (blue front) JBL 4xxx series were also ment as and used as studio monitors before the hifi crowd started to fancy them.
 

DWI

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Neumann basically says a monitor is trying to be accurate (and preserves dynamic) whereas a home speaker tends not to.
I am not reading this as : a monitor is not suited in a home environment. If someone is looking for high fidelity, it would still be the best choice.
I don't see either where/why a monitor should need more room treatment than a home speaker.
The article is very clear and needs no interpretation.

If you enjoy the sound of a studio monitor for your home stereo, whether Neumann or from anyone else, then fine. But what they are saying is that they accept for home stereo the choice is subjective, not objective, as "most music consumers therefore prefer speakers that seem to enhance their listening experience".
 
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