• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). There are daily reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Neumann KH420 Review (Studio Monitor)

Rate this speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 2 0.5%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 2 0.5%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 25 6.0%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 390 93.1%

  • Total voters
    419

Aafnp

Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2019
Messages
21
Likes
28
Depends what for. I saw on the other thread you're thinking of swapping out your active ATCs - in which case the KH420s would be in the same ballpark, and maybe even a sideways or downward move, depending on which ATCs you're using right now. With huge respect to KEF, the LS60s are domestic products heavily biased toward lifestyle convenience, and stand no chance at all of equalling either ATC or Neumann for SPLs, durability, longevity or serviceability. Apples and oranges, really.
That’s helpful. Yeah my current atcs are the scm19A’s. The passive/older version of them had terrible measurements according to Amir. But not sure if that means the actives are as bad. If so, then I’d imagine the Neumanns should be an upgrade.
 

Tangband

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 3, 2019
Messages
1,140
Likes
1,053
That’s helpful. Yeah my current atcs are the scm19A’s. The passive/older version of them had terrible measurements according to Amir. But not sure if that means the actives are as bad. If so, then I’d imagine the Neumanns should be an upgrade.
I would guess that scm19A has an active crossover and that fact alone can fix a flawed passive crossover design.
 

HarmonicTHD

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 18, 2022
Messages
528
Likes
543
Interesting question. Both loudspeakers are probably very good .
My wote would go to kh420 because of two things mainly:

1. Its active
2. The baffle is wider on kh420 - I see this as an advantage with less diffraction and no need for baffle step compensation.
Errmmh.

The LS60 are not active?
 

Tangband

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 3, 2019
Messages
1,140
Likes
1,053
Errmmh.

The LS60 are not active?
Hmm … sorry , I didnt see that :)
They are indeed active, and I would like to know the crossover freq between the uni-q driver and the bass.
With a slim width of the cabinett you need probably to compensate for the baffle step - This means that you cant crossover as low as you want to, or you need eq - boost for the lower midrange for the uni-q driver.
 
Last edited:

Blockader

Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2021
Messages
25
Likes
49
LS60 measures better. KH 420 is louder. For home use in a medium sized room, I'd definitely prefer LS60 over KH 420's.
 

thewas

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 15, 2020
Messages
4,309
Likes
9,552
The baffle is wider on kh420 - I see this as an advantage with less diffraction and no need for baffle step compensation.
Also wider baffle loudspeakers need some baffle step compensation, its just shifted to lower frequencies and is no deal especially for active loudspeakers.

Also the LS60 starts having controlled directivity lower than one would expect from their slim size partially due to their tall cabinet and also to the their side woofers which are shifted by FIR, namely approximately 400 Hz
1652460464794.png


and thus not that much higher then the much wider KH420

index.php


Hmm … sorry , I didnt see that :)
They are indeed active, and I would like to know the crossover freq between the uni-q driver and the bass.
390 Hz, its all in the interesting white paper https://us.kef.com/pub/media/ls60-content/LS60W_WP.pdf
 
Last edited:

HarmonicTHD

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 18, 2022
Messages
528
Likes
543
Also wider baffle loudspeakers need some baffle step compensation, its just shifted to lower frequencies and is no deal especially for active loudspeakers.

Also the LS60 starts having controlled directivity lower than one would expect from their slim size partially due to their tall cabinet and also to the their side woofers which are shifted by FIR, namely approximately 400 Hz
View attachment 206510

and thus not as higher then the much wider KH420

index.php



390 Hz, its all in the interesting white paper https://us.kef.com/pub/media/ls60-content/LS60W_WP.pdf
Wow. Thanks for putting these two plots next to one another. It is really interesting to see where and how defined the LS starts beaming.
 

thewas

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 15, 2020
Messages
4,309
Likes
9,552
LS60 measures better. KH 420 is louder. For home use in a medium sized room, I'd definitely prefer LS60 over KH 420's.
They both measure on a highest level and not so differently but still are no real competitors as they are targeted to very different target markets.

A sound engineer who wants to reliably work with them 8 hours per day will take the Neumann also due to their shape and size because of the mixing console and their symmetric inputs which are standard at the pro universe.

Someone who wants an also very accurate sounding loudspeaker for his living room will take the KEF also due to their shape (no stands needed), looks and ease to directly feed them with his music through the WiFi.

We ASR tech aficionados who would consider the Neumann also for our living rooms are a tiny very special crowd.
 

DSJR

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 27, 2020
Messages
1,545
Likes
1,883
Location
Suffolk Coastal, UK
Dr. Crawford is a genius . Linn kaber was one of the first 2,5 way loudspeakers ever released.
Akudorik exact ( by Phil Budd ) is flat within +- 2 dB between 200-20000 Hz, measured at a distance of 1,3 metres in a normal livingroom. I have done a lot of measurement on this model. This is one of the worlds best sounding standmount loudspeaker, and one of the most expensive too.
The Kaber was not good most of the time and thumped and spat viciously as an aktiv model (I heard several in different rooms set up by different people and bought by the Linn-faithful, so not one particular pair)... I updated the tweeters on a passive pair and they then sounded nice enough, but no better than a KEF Q series floor stander of the period (twenty years ago now). The Nexus was a hideous two way with massively complex passive crossover and the Kan and Sara, their distinct sonic character already mostly ruined in the mid 80's by KEF messing with the bass-mid units, were totally destroyed in the Kan II and Sara 9 version in terms of severe midrange honkiness and colouration. The Keltik sounded 'grainy' and ballistic everywhere I heard them. At least their modern stuff sparkles attractively and suits many rooms if not an anechoic chamber ;) A Linnie pal went to Lejonklou amplifers and liked the money he saved - no idea how these latter amps are as I don't think anyone's ever measured them...
 
Last edited:

HarmonicTHD

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 18, 2022
Messages
528
Likes
543
I would take a pro audio monitor over any "audiophile" active speaker
based on reliability alone ….
oh heavens. … no one has any facts of how reliable these two speakers really are …and yet you put out this bold statement.
 
Last edited:

Tangband

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 3, 2019
Messages
1,140
Likes
1,053
The Kaber was not good most of the time and thumped and spat viciously as an aktiv model (I heard several in different rooms set up by different people and bought by the Linn-faithful, so not one particular pair)... I updated the tweeters on a passive pair and they then sounded nice enough, but no better than a KEF Q series floor stander of the period (twenty years ago now). The Nexus was a hideous two way with massively complex passive crossover and the Kan and Sara, their distinct sonic character already mostly ruined in the mid 80's by KEF messing with the bass-mid units, were totally destroyed in the Kan II and Sara 9 version in terms of severe midrange honkiness and colouration. The Keltik sounded 'grainy' and ballistic everywhere I heard them. At least their modern stuff sparkles attractively and suits many rooms if not an anechoic chamber ;) A Linnie pal went to Lejonklou amplifers and liked the money he saved - no idea how these latter amps are as I don't think anyone's ever measured them...
The active kabers and keltiks where voiced to suit LP12 ;)
 

Pearljam5000

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 12, 2020
Messages
2,321
Likes
2,485
oh heavens. … no one has any facts of how reliable these two speakers are …and yet you put out this bold statement.
The KH420 is 8 years old i doubt there's no data about how reliable it is.
And in general Neumann and Genelec are known for their reliability so i don't understand your comment
 

Aafnp

Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2019
Messages
21
Likes
28
The KH420 is 8 years old i doubt there's no data about how reliable it is.
And in general Neumann and Genelec are known for their reliability so i don't understand your comment
Yeah, in contrast, I’ve heard no shortage of complaints about ls50w/lsx reliability. That’s what makes me most nervous about the ls60. That, and the lack of grills.
 

DSJR

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 27, 2020
Messages
1,545
Likes
1,883
Location
Suffolk Coastal, UK
The active kabers and keltiks where voiced to suit LP12 ;)
I'd say not, as the LP12 was at the end of it's 'fruitbox phase' when these came out (I think the Keltik pre-dated the LP12 Cirkus upgrade but it's thirty years and lifetimes ago for me now...). Said pal used Karik/Numerik's too (he changed samples with every board revision and there were several in the 90's... I'd say Keltiks were unusable with Linn LP12 based vinyl myself (no, I'm not digging a hole, honestly :D)
 

Aafnp

Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2019
Messages
21
Likes
28
Side note: what stands are folks using with these in a living room? How tall of a stand would you need to get the tweeters to ear level?
 

Digby

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Mar 12, 2021
Messages
546
Likes
352
I feel like the "want to stay married" side probably needs at least 15 more variables you have to answer yes to.
 
Top Bottom