Neumann KH310 bass response

[pazmag]

Hi all. I’m hoping someone here can help me better understand something relating to bass response in the Neumann KH 310. I own the KH120ii and I recently went to my usual distributor to listen to the KH310’s. I tried them a few years ago but was unimpressed, feeling that the low end was weak and seemed to be missing lot of information despite quoting a frequency response of down to 33hz. Having read the very positive review on this site I thought I’d give them another go in the belief that maybe my studio had played a part in my original latest. My reaction and feelings were the same as every other time I’ve heard them….bass light, no real low end and weak under 100hz. Now I’m no expert and the tests carried out by the erudite people on this site are far more technical than I, but I’ve listened to and used many hi end studio monitors in many different studios and my instincts are not often that far wide of the mark. However, there may be things or factors I’m not taking into consideration? It’s not ported so I understand that it’s won’t have thd “trouser flap” low end of a ported design but then it should also be less room dependent as far as I know? What other factors could explain my perceived lack of bass given that the review waxed lyrical about the serious bottom end? I also use the Kali IN8v2 which I find to have amazing low end. Any thoughts?

 

[staticV3]

Did you listen to the KH310 in exactly the same spot as your KH120II and IN8v2?

Bass response is usually more about the room than it is the speaker, so if you found a speaker to sound weirdly bass-light, then it may have just been a quirk of the room that it was put in.

 

[pazmag]

Did you listen to the KH310 in exactly the same spot as your KH120II and IN8v2?

Bass response is usually more about the room than it is the speaker, so if you found a speaker to sound weirdly bass-light, then it may have just been a quirk of the room that it was put in.

I've heard them in at least three different rooms and on each occasion they felt bass light.

 

[staticV3]

I've heard them in at least three different rooms and on each occasion they felt bass light.

Thats just evidence of an anecdote.

Did you compare the KH310 to another monitor with both speakers placed in the same spot of the same room?

 

[pazmag]

Thats just evidence of an anecdote.

Did you compare the KH310 to another monitor with both speakers placed in the same spot of the same room?

Not sure what you mean. I'm saying that in multiple situations, the speakers sounded bass light where others didn't. So I assume form that that the room can be taken out of the equation? In answer to your question, yes, I tried the KH310's in the same position as other monitors including the Kali IN8V's and the Neumann's sounded bass light

 

[Ktacos]

EQ does exist.

 

[kyuu]

Looking at the review, yeah there's no way the 310 is light on bass unless your listening volumes are extreme and/or you're using them outside of a nearfield context. As the previous poster noted, have you tried simply EQing a bass boost? Might be that you're simply used to systems that have boosted bass and flat bass sounds "weak" to you. Also, if you aren't using some system to perform room correction in the bass region, it could also be some combination of masking from peaks and nulls giving you trouble.

 

[G|force]

EQ does exist.

When I fancy some more 80-100, I cut some 200-300 first. Not a universally popular opinion, but I consider 200Hz the 'mud band' anyway.

 

[LTig]

I do own the predecessor (K&H O300D) and listened to the KH310 in our local pro shop (compared with KH120mk2 and KH150). Neither the O300D nor the KH310 are bass light. Their bass however is very clean (no port) and does not have the typical hifi bump around 100 Hz (which is true for all Neumanns and Genelecs).

I recommend to do a blind test with a KH120mk2 and a KH310 at the same position.

 

[DVDdoug]

I don't know much about the KH310 and I've never heard it, but it does seem to have a smallish woofer. I mean it's not 12 or 15-inches.

You may want to add a subwoofer, although subs usually operate a little lower in frequency so a sub may not give you bass you can feel in your body.

It’s not ported so I understand that it’s won’t have thd “trouser flap” low end of a ported design but then it should also be less room dependent as far as I know? What other factors could explain my perceived lack of bass given that the review waxed lyrical about the serious bottom end?

You can't generalize. You can't tell if a speaker is ported or sealed by listening, and generally not by measuring either although sometimes measurements can give you a "clue". You can make a good or bad speaker/subwoofer either way but it's easier to foul-up a ported design. Foul-ups are rare in the "modern era" of Thiele-Small parameters and handy-dandy software. Plus, a company like Neumann is going to do extensive testing & tweaking, (In the 1970s, "bass reflex" speakers got a bad reputation.)

 

[pazmag]

firstly, thank you all for your responses, it's very helpful. The point about EQ is relevant and as a professional music producer I employ it daily. I use room correction on both the Kali's and the KH120ii's so I suppose in fairness I should judge the KH310's on the same terms. That said, it's still an enigma as to why I've heard the KH310's in a variety of different rooms and in each case they sounded bass lite. Maybe they work best with EQ though I note that on the ASR review it states that no alignment or EQ was used and yet the speakers still resonated the entire loft.....doesn't make sense to me as I could barely hear any meaningful bottom end and my setup sounds pretty similar........Oh well, I'll give EQ a go......thanks guys!

 

[dasherzx]

having them i find the bass on the 310 a tad more than the 150, and definitely over the 120ii, as the measurements show. so probably some other factors. 35 to 39hz is a small but subjectively i heard more rumble on bass heavy tracks.

 

[dfuller]

I used to own the KH310s. They are not bass light. SPL limited, yes - bass light, no. I would be looking at placement more than anything else.

doesn't make sense to me as I could barely hear any meaningful bottom end and my setup sounds pretty similar

One of two issues is present (honestly, probably both):
1. You're sitting in a modal null.
2. SBIR is causing lumpy response in the low end.

Can you show how you have them set up?