Neumann KH150

[dickiefunk]

Some dealers send demo speakers, if you pay a fee. An option could be to try 1 KH750 + MA1 with your 120s to see if that makes integration better (not that the KH750 is vastly superior to the Eve, more because of the DSP and MA1-option).
Also i suggest measuring your 120 without a sub. In a small room, you probably have dips and holes between 70-120 Hz. If you exchange the 120s with other speakers, this probably will not change. So you may need a sub anyway to fill this hole. What i am trying to say: Before you buy new speakers i suggest finding out what is wrong with your system, first.

That sounds like an integration issue to me, rather than an inherent problem with either the monitors or the sub.
Have you used REW to validate your in-room response? IMHO it is the easiest way to make sure integration is done right.

E.g. I've recently integrated my KH120s with the Adam Sub7 with very good results, IMHO integration is seamless. Adam Sub7 is a small sub with very little additional LF extension vs KH120 alone, but it vastly improved the 60-120Hz response in my room. I only used the built-in sub crossover (85Hz low pass on the sub and 85 Hz high pass for the satellite out) plus the 3-band PEQ of my RME Babyface (to fix the worst of the room mode peaks).

Good luck!

EDIT: Similar to what @DjBonoBobo suggested above, my point is that changing the speakers/sub may not necessarily fix your problem. I'd recommend to first try and optimize your existing setup.

Thankyou. These are excellent suggestions. I've not used REW before but have just downloaded it. What mic would you recommend using with it for measuring the results?

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Thankyou for this. I don’t need very loud as my room is small and I am sitting roughly 1.2-1.5m away from the speakers. I find the KH120’s are already pretty loud and I have them set to 94 on the back and still don’t have them turned up that high. The Eve TS108 sub sounds good but it doesn’t sound like one integrated system with the KH120’s. It sounds kinda separate and you can hear the sub bass coming from a different place to the KH120’s.
Ideally I would like one coherent sound with all the information coming from one source if that makes sense?
I’ve tried moving the sub and different crossover frequencies but I’m still not completely satisfied with the results. Saying that, I prefer having the Eve TS108 as rather than just the KH120’s at times though I tend to do a large percentage of my mixing on just the KH120’s.

There are a few other interesting options on the market at the moment which are :-

Focal ST6 Solo6
IK Precision 5

In an ideal world I’d like to hear both of these along with the KH150’s in my room but simply don’t have the budget to buy all these to try unless there are some demo models!?

In case you can’t

Thankyou. These are excellent suggestions. I've not used REW before but have just downloaded it. What mic would you recommend using with it for measuring the results?

UMIK 1

 

[dickiefunk]

I just remembered I also have IK's ARC3 which came with the Total Studio 3.5 MAX bundle I bought a few weeks ago. I haven't installed it yet and don't have any experience with these types of software.
What are your thoughts on using REW vs ARC3 for measuring the room?

 

[dominikz]

What mic would you recommend using with it for measuring the results?

For most precise results I'd recommend to use a calibrated measurement microphone (ideally including both 0° and 90° calibration files). The only two places I know of that offer 3rd party microphone calibration services to hobbyists are Cross Sprectrum Labs (US) and HiFi Selbstbau (EU) (you can also buy calibrated mics from them).

But in general I think that any relatively flat omnidirectional microphone will be OK for the most important task of fixing the bass - see this post where I compare my Cross-Spectrum Labs calibrated Dayton EMM-6 with the Rode NT2-A in omni mode.

I'll also refer you to this post with basic instructions on how to do in-room response measurements with moving microphone method (MMM).

One more consideration - if you have an audio interface with a microphone preamp and phantom power you may prefer to buy and XLR output measurement mic rather than a USB mic (like the UMIK-1). That way you can use the native audio interface ASIO driver for both input and output in REW.

I just remembered I also have IK's ARC3 which came with the Total Studio 3.5 MAX bundle I bought a few weeks ago. I haven't installed it yet and don't have any experience with these types of software.
What are your thoughts on using REW vs ARC3 for measuring the room?

In my opinion REW is much better suited for the measurement part of the work, and it also provides more flexibility for building corrections - but it is less automated and will require some time to learn.
You might also be interested in my pretty large thread with tests of various room correction SW (including ARC3 and REW). This is the post with my thoughts on REW.

If you need more help I'd suggest to open a dedicated thread.

Good luck and have fun!

 

[dickiefunk]

Ok thankyou. I will start a new thread at some point.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Neumann added directivity diagrams for the KH 150.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Quick and dirty comparison - maybe someone wants to make this in a better comparable way and/or add the Genelec competition:

KH120	KH150	KH310

 

[DJBonoBobo]

So that would be the appropriate benchmark for the KH 150 - price and features are indeed very comparable (except AES67):
View attachment 208870
View attachment 208871
View attachment 208872

I don´t know if we have more data on the Genelec 8340, but i think the KH150 looks a bit better.

 

[thewas]

Quick and dirty comparison - maybe someone wants to make this in a better comparable way and/or add the Genelec competition:

KH120	KH150	KH310
View attachment 230625	View attachment 230623	View attachment 230628
View attachment 230627	View attachment 230622	View attachment 230630
View attachment 230626	View attachment 230624	View attachment 230629

That's textbook performance, even more considering the price and size class, didn't expect different though.

I don´t know if we have more data on the Genelec 8340, but i think the KH150 looks a bit better.

Yes, quite better:

Will be also interesting to see how the response of Genelec will be in the next generation of their entry line nearfield monitors.

Long live the clean engineering approach of such great companies!

 

[BDE]

[...] Will be also interesting to see how the response of Genelec will be in the next generation of their entry line nearfield monitors. [...]

Did I miss something, any news/ gossip?

 

[thewas]

Did I miss something, any news/ gossip?

Not at all, but I am sure they will also have some (r)evolution in the next years, same as they have with the Ones.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I don´t know if we have more data on the Genelec 8340, but i think the KH150 looks a bit better.

Is the KH150 also better than 8341?

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Is the KH150 also better than 8341?

At least in terms of distortion below 100Hz i expect the KH150 to be better than the 8341A, because it is better than the 8351A (compare green and red line).

 

[DJBonoBobo]

By the way, the KH150 (without AES67) is available now in Germany. I´ve seen it in stock at Thomann and @Hörzone

The latter also has bundle options (MA1, KH750).

 

[Pearljam5000]

By the way, the KH150 (without AES67) is available now in Germany. I´ve seen it in stock at Thomann and @Hörzone

The latter also has bundle options (MA1, KH750).

Let's hope Amir buys one

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Let's hope Amir buys one

Maybe the company already sent him one... I think it is also very likely that S&R will feature a review soon. Thankfully their measurements include a full spinorama graph now.

But to be honest, I hardly think any surprises will come out of this. You can already see from the known measurements that the KH150 is at the limit of what is technically possible for a "traditional" (non-coaxial etc.) 2-way in this class/size.
Of course, it's nice if you can also calculate a "score" and especially with Amir's measurements better compare with others tested here, e.g. from Genelec.

 

[Curvature]

Maybe the company already sent him one... I think it is also very likely that S&R will feature a review soon. Thankfully their measurements include a full spinorama graph now.

But to be honest, I hardly think any surprises will come out of this. You can already see from the known measurements that the KH150 is at the limit of what is technically possible for a "traditional" (non-coaxial etc.) 2-way in this class/size.
Of course, it's nice if you can also calculate a "score" and especially with Amir's measurements better compare with others tested here, e.g. from Genelec.

The only downside to the data Neumann provides is that they do not give access to the balloon data in the form of EASE or CLF or some other format. Genelec does, so you can compare to Amir's results directly.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

The only downside to the data Neumann provides is that they do not give access to the balloon data in the form of EASE or CLF or some other format. Genelec does, so you can compare to Amir's results directly.

I found this on my harddrive. But don´t remember where i got this from. But it seems this EASE-thing is out there for Neumann as well.

 

[Curvature]

I found this on my harddrive. But don´t remember where i got this from. But it seems this EASE-thing is out there for Neumann as well.

View attachment 231343

I would appreciate the 3d_data files uploaded, if you wouldn't mind.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

I would appreciate the 3d_data files uploaded, if you wouldn't mind.

Found it: https://en-de.neumann.com/file-finder?product=KH 310 A&category=monitors&area=85

You may have to click on "More downloads" first.

PS: I found it for 120, 310, 420 and maybe KH80 (not sure), but not for 150 (yet).