Pearljam5000
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Anything better than the KH150 at about the same price?
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Neumann KH150
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Pearljam5000
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LolIt’s Saturday morning man, you can’t be that bored already!
I'm just trying to keep this thread active
uwotm8
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Adam A8H then
thewas
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If I was to spend 2500€ I would save another 1000€ and get these plus a not expensive well measuring amp, which look nicer and have quite smoother directivity and sound power than the KH150:
Full measurements: https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/march_sointuva_awg/
If not, rather a KH120II or Genelec 8030+8330 with sub(s) which while not as good as Sointuva, still behave a bit better than the KH150 which is my least favourite Neumann model.
Full measurements: https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/march_sointuva_awg/
If not, rather a KH120II or Genelec 8030+8330 with sub(s) which while not as good as Sointuva, still behave a bit better than the KH150 which is my least favourite Neumann model.
Nothing close ----- Study the measurements and review by Amir here on ASR or Sound on Sound review.
The only thing about the Sointuva's you recommend is, while close to the wall placement I'm sure is possible, Erin suggests a minimum of 2 feet to allow them 'to breathe'. With the Neumann's and Gens, (very) close to wall placement is often recommended in threads on this forum. So advantage KH150, at least in that regards with typical desktop placement or tighter spaces.
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I'm actually still kind of amazed that the lobing on the 150 is as bad as it is vertically. It's got 4th order filters at 1700hz, they by all metrics should be unusually good vertically like Amphions are - but they aren't.
I want to clarify the issue, with Neumann monitors, in my analysis. First, they are front ported or not ported at all. That makes a big difference from rear ported.
Second, one must consider the issue of reflected sound interfering with the direct sound. A little reflected sound is good.
However, the time differential of the reflected sound is an important consideration. Sound travels at 1 ft per millisecond in air. If the reflected sound is between about 6 and 14 ms from the direct sound, then the ear can perceive it as interference. Less than 6 ms, and the ear cannot tell the difference. (Think of another singer singing with you - in critical situations, up to six feet is ok).
(These timings are approximate - people have different sensitivities to these differentials).
More than 12 ms, an the ear hears the reflected sound as a reverb, rather than as interference.
In my studio I have seven pairs of Neumann monitors - all of which are less than two feet from the front wall. This means a differential of not more than 4 ms. For me, I find this the best.
Moreover, when testing the front wall distance with the MA1, I find that this requires the least correction.
Just what works for me. Others may differ.
thewas
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All loudspeakers need more or less bass equalisation if placed close to boundaries so that isn't different for the KH150, the only difference is that with it equalisation can be done with the internal DSP while for passive loudspeakers some external EQ source or amp is needed.
Okay, don't even have to take a closer look - Purifi woofer, Satori TW29BNWG-4 tweeter. Both pretty much state of the art. Not hard to make a really good speaker out of those.
RobL
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Yes, that’s a puzzling recommendation I see Erin repeat often in his reviews…hope he’s not just placating old audiophile’s wive’s tales about soundstage “opening up” etc.
not Erin
It is interesting. Neumann went for a wide-ish -6 db isobar. It's 25° up and down at the narrowest frequency point. Very symmetrical.
By contrast, the Sointuva radiates asymmetrically and the bottom lobe is much closer to the listening axis.
It seems to me that in order to get a very even vertical dispersion across 50° total. Direct power is very even with a wide-ish listening angle with the Neumann. However, to achieve that, Neumann traded the evenness of the dispersion in more off-axis directions, and this is what causes that irregularity in the directivity index.
Since reflections are the counterpart of sound power, it can easily be seen that that the dip in the floor and ceiling bounces are much more pronounced on the Neumann than on the Sointuva.
However, I don't see how the Amphion is good, I'm looking at the Argon 1 on Spinorama and it's nothing to write home about.
One of the factors that make Neumann monitors good for nearfield and very nearfield use.It is interesting. Neumann went for a wide-ish -6 db isobar. It's 25° up and down at the narrowest frequency point. Very symmetrical.
By contrast, the Sointuva radiates asymmetrically and the bottom lobe is much closer to the listening axis.
It seems to me that in order to get a very even vertical dispersion across 50° total. Direct power is very even with a wide-ish listening angle with the Neumann. However, to achieve that, Neumann traded the evenness of the dispersion in more off-axis directions, and this is what causes that irregularity in the directivity index.
Since reflections are the counterpart of sound power, it can easily be seen that that the dip in the floor and ceiling bounces are much more pronounced on the Neumann than on the Sointuva.
However, I don't see how the Amphion is good, I'm looking at the Argon 1 on Spinorama and it's nothing to write home about.
This is the One18 - orange is the -6dB isobar. The pinch is still give or take +/- 40 degrees. Everything else about the speaker is thoroughly mediocre but this is pretty remarkably good for a 2 way non coax.It is interesting. Neumann went for a wide-ish -6 db isobar. It's 25° up and down at the narrowest frequency point. Very symmetrical.
By contrast, the Sointuva radiates asymmetrically and the bottom lobe is much closer to the listening axis.
It seems to me that in order to get a very even vertical dispersion across 50° total. Direct power is very even with a wide-ish listening angle with the Neumann. However, to achieve that, Neumann traded the evenness of the dispersion in more off-axis directions, and this is what causes that irregularity in the directivity index.
Since reflections are the counterpart of sound power, it can easily be seen that that the dip in the floor and ceiling bounces are much more pronounced on the Neumann than on the Sointuva.
However, I don't see how the Amphion is good, I'm looking at the Argon 1 on Spinorama and it's nothing to write home about.
I'm not sure what went on with the measurement, but I'm betting there's an issue of of both resolution and something else. The pinch is at 850 Hz, the crossover is that 1600 Hz according to the specs. and we see nothing at 1600 Hz, it makes no sense.
It's from S&R, their measurements are true anechoic and generally fairly high res.
I don't know then, this chart doesn't make sense to me.
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