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Neumann KH150

Pearljam5000

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@Pearljam5000

Seriously, any data that would prove that aluminum enclosure are automatically superior to Plastic? You know that plastic is an umbrella term that covers also, material that can be made to be more durable than metals? And that most of these can stay in their initial formulation for thousands of years?
You cannot just dismiss a material by its name...
A 3-way is not automatically superior to a 2-way. There is much more to speaker designs than those, especially with DSP...

One of the founding principles of ASR is that the scientific data must support the intellectual position. If you can present the data that prove that enclosure made of aluminum are superior to same enclosure made of plastic.... well .. OK... So far you haven't. Argument such as "I don't care what people say " belongs to a different forum... Please present your data.

(and get those JBL 308 ... at less than $600.oo)

Peace...
Like i said there are things beyond just SQ
How it looks, how premium it feels
I have a feeling you would choose a metal car over a plastic one.
Just touch the KH120 or Genelecs and you'd know what I'm talking.
 
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dfuller

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Like i said there are things beyond just SQ
How it looks, how premium it feels
I have a feeling you would choose a metal car over a plastic one.
Just touch the KH120 or Genelecs and you'd know what I'm talking.
Why are you touching your speakers regularly though?
 

FrantzM

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Like i said there are things beyond just SQ
How it looks, how premium it feels
I have a feeling you would choose a metal car over a plastic one.
Just touch the KH120 or Genelecs and you'd know what I'm talking.
Plastic can take care of this as well.. Composite materials can feel as premium as anything.. Those are subjective attributes and for the most part, I don't touch my speakers to feel them, only to move them if needs be...
I have "touched" metal speakers, (YG , Magico), Composite material speakers ( Tidal, Wilson Benesch, Wilson Audio, etc...) Wood speakers ( lot, among these , Revel, Sonus Faber, etc...) the premium feel is there, it is matter of how the material is treated and of ...mood... Blind, they all would feel similar ... And a bit immaterial to the performance of the speakers. Performance is something we have come to expect from Neumann and Genelec ...

Peace.
 

ccc118

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Plastic can take care of this as well.. Composite materials can feel as premium as anything.. Those are subjective attributes and for the most part, I don't touch my speakers to feel them, only to move them if needs be...
I have "touched" metal speakers, (YG , Magico), Composite material speakers ( Tidal, Wilson Benesch, Wilson Audio, etc...) Wood speakers ( lot, among these , Revel, Sonus Faber, etc...) the premium feel is there, it is matter of how the material is treated and of ...mood... Blind, they all would feel similar ... And a bit immaterial to the performance of the speakers. Performance is something we have come to expect from Neumann and Genelec ...

Peace.
I commented earlier that the aluminum kh120 feels very sturdy, but I really don't think it matters that much. Once they're set up on a studio, you really don't end up handling them anymore. They're not something you're supposed to be moving around or traveling with.
 

Curvature

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^and Neumann always USED to be good value compared to their competitors.

You had to spend considerably more than the KH120s to get up to the next level in performance.
And the KH120s were considerably better than other monitors for the same price.

The KH310s seem to be like that too.

Hopefully the KH150s can continue that tradition. At $6,800 it might be hard.

For a starters the KH310s would probably not be completely outclassed by the KH150s.

But time will tell. Perhaps they are truly next level for the price, the same way the 120s were when they were released.
There is nothing else to pick from at the moment. The KH150 is the best speaker of its size, excluding Genelec. The performance results of any other model are all second tier. I have no doubt independent measurements will show that.

Every other company that matches the approach to performance is way out of the price range or makes completely different speakers.
 

badboygolf16v

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As I've posted previously, on brief acquaintance I preferred the KH 310 to the KH 150.

The KH 150 will likely be pretty much sonically equivalent to the equivalent Genelec SAM monitor, maybe a bit better, maybe a bit worse, but I doubt there will be much in it.

Neumann used to hold the trumps when it came to price/performance ratio. But... the MA 1 system is clunky in comparison to GLM, it's inferior in functionality, features and reliability. Also, Genelec support is better than Neumann's with regards to helping with problems and provision of learning material.

When you compare the KH 150 as a package of hardware, proprietary DSP correction ecosystem and product support - and that is what the price covers - to the Genelec equivalent, I can't see that it's justified.

So pricing of the KH 150 IS a big deal IMO if it's similar to Genelec's.
 

Grotti

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KH150s cost 1689$ each in EU. That is a fair price for such speaker. Blame your Neumann distributor if they cost more, not Neumann.
I don't know if it's a fair price but it ranks within the margin of other big players with comparable products. And it is for sure far from the ripp of of brands like ATC etc...
 

HarmonicTHD

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Corvette fans would disagree.

Also, aren’t the most expensive exotic cars usually composite skinned?
It’s hopeless - housing material (Alu), tweeter type (ribbon) and price (cheap or for free) are his favorite topics. Been going for years. Many tried and failed to explain (look at all the Genelec and Neumann threads).
 

Pearljam5000

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As I've posted previously, on brief acquaintance I preferred the KH 310 to the KH 150.

The KH 150 will likely be pretty much sonically equivalent to the equivalent Genelec SAM monitor, maybe a bit better, maybe a bit worse, but I doubt there will be much in it.

Neumann used to hold the trumps when it came to price/performance ratio. But... the MA 1 system is clunky in comparison to GLM, it's inferior in functionality, features and reliability. Also, Genelec support is better than Neumann's with regards to helping with problems and provision of learning material.

When you compare the KH 150 as a package of hardware, proprietary DSP correction ecosystem and product support - and that is what the price covers - to the Genelec equivalent, I can't see that it's justified.

So pricing of the KH 150 IS a big deal IMO if it's similar to Genelec's.
Thank you.
 

Blockader

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I noticed I can buy a pair of KH80’s or KH120’s plus the KH750dsp sub for less than a pair of KH150’s.
Could anyone explain why it would be worth paying more for a pair of KH150’s?
yes, if you want higher max spl in mids and treble.
 

ccc118

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I noticed I can buy a pair of KH80’s or KH120’s plus the KH750dsp sub for less than a pair of KH150’s.
Could anyone explain why it would be worth paying more for a pair of KH150’s?
I suppose you're right. I didn't think about that. If the DSP is the most important thing, you could get the sub. There are some situations/uses or types of music where a sub isn't really needed and it might be preferable to have larger monitors that have a wider frequency range instead. Also, larger monitors might be preferred if being used in a larger room.
 

voodooless

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The KH80 would still be SPL limited even with the sub. At higher SPL it already start to have high distortion < 500 Hz. The bigger KH150 should do much better.
 

DJBonoBobo

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I noticed I can buy a pair of KH80’s or KH120’s plus the KH750dsp sub for less than a pair of KH150’s.
Could anyone explain why it would be worth paying more for a pair of KH150’s?
The various Neumann options differ only slightly from one another when each is used in its intended range within the specifications.
You need to consider what the listening distance is, how loud you want to listen, and how much low bass you need.
Then you can figure out what you need based on the measurements provided.

For example, the KH80 is only suitable for low volumes or short listening distances, whether with or without a sub. The KH120 is also less suitable for longer listening distances, as it sounds darker there. However, it can play significantly louder.
If it is louder or the distance should be greater 1 KH750 will no longer suffice - they are quite small. But they go down to 18Hz.

Etc.
 

dickiefunk

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Thankyou for this. I don’t need very loud as my room is small and I am sitting roughly 1.2-1.5m away from the speakers. I find the KH120’s are already pretty loud and I have them set to 94 on the back and still don’t have them turned up that high. The Eve TS108 sub sounds good but it doesn’t sound like one integrated system with the KH120’s. It sounds kinda separate and you can hear the sub bass coming from a different place to the KH120’s.
Ideally I would like one coherent sound with all the information coming from one source if that makes sense?
I’ve tried moving the sub and different crossover frequencies but I’m still not completely satisfied with the results. Saying that, I prefer having the Eve TS108 as rather than just the KH120’s at times though I tend to do a large percentage of my mixing on just the KH120’s.

There are a few other interesting options on the market at the moment which are :-

Focal ST6 Solo6
IK Precision 5

In an ideal world I’d like to hear both of these along with the KH150’s in my room but simply don’t have the budget to buy all these to try unless there are some demo models!?
 

DJBonoBobo

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Thankyou for this. I don’t need very loud as my room is small and I am sitting roughly 1.2-1.5m away from the speakers. I find the KH120’s are already pretty loud and I have them set to 94 on the back and still don’t have them turned up that high. The Eve TS108 sub sounds good but it doesn’t sound like one integrated system with the KH120’s. It sounds kinda separate and you can hear the sub bass coming from a different place to the KH120’s.
Ideally I would like one coherent sound with all the information coming from one source if that makes sense?
I’ve tried moving the sub and different crossover frequencies but I’m still not completely satisfied with the results. Saying that, I prefer having the Eve TS108 as rather than just the KH120’s at times though I tend to do a large percentage of my mixing on just the KH120’s.

There are a few other interesting options on the market at the moment which are :-

Focal ST6 Solo6
IK Precision 5

In an ideal world I’d like to hear both of these along with the KH150’s in my room but simply don’t have the budget to buy all these to try unless there are some demo models!?
Some dealers send demo speakers, if you pay a fee. An option could be to try 1 KH750 + MA1 with your 120s to see if that makes integration better (not that the KH750 is vastly superior to the Eve, more because of the DSP and MA1-option).
Also i suggest measuring your 120 without a sub. In a small room, you probably have dips and holes between 70-120 Hz. If you exchange the 120s with other speakers, this probably will not change. So you may need a sub anyway to fill this hole. What i am trying to say: Before you buy new speakers i suggest finding out what is wrong with your system, first.
 

dominikz

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The Eve TS108 sub sounds good but it doesn’t sound like one integrated system with the KH120’s. It sounds kinda separate and you can hear the sub bass coming from a different place to the KH120’s.
Ideally I would like one coherent sound with all the information coming from one source if that makes sense?
I’ve tried moving the sub and different crossover frequencies but I’m still not completely satisfied with the results.
That sounds like an integration issue to me, rather than an inherent problem with either the monitors or the sub.
Have you used REW to validate your in-room response? IMHO it is the easiest way to make sure integration is done right.

E.g. I've recently integrated my KH120s with the Adam Sub7 with very good results, IMHO integration is seamless. Adam Sub7 is a small sub with very little additional LF extension vs KH120 alone, but it vastly improved the 60-120Hz response in my room. I only used the built-in sub crossover (85Hz low pass on the sub and 85 Hz high pass for the satellite out) plus the 3-band PEQ of my RME Babyface (to fix the worst of the room mode peaks).

Good luck!

EDIT: Similar to what @DjBonoBobo suggested above, my point is that changing the speakers/sub may not necessarily fix your problem. I'd recommend to first try and optimize your existing setup.
 
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