Neumann Kh150 + Kh750 / kh805 II or Kh310 + Kh750 / kh805 II jus listening 18m2

[slavenoise]

Hi! I have KH150 and KH750 monitors in an 18m² space and I'm considering replacing/upgrading the sub or monitors with KH310s. I've read a few threads on this forum about Neumann, and there are people who have listened to both products side by side. Can you comment on the differences in sound? Will the KH310s be more musical, more pleasant to listen to, smoother, or just the opposite? Does the bass have more punch, not just extension but impact? I only use the monitors for listening, and I want to get the most out of them. I primarily listen to rap, D&B, and all sorts of genres. I listen to all genres, so I'm looking for precision and fun. Could I get some opinions from people who have upgraded from KH150s to KH310s, or vice versa?I was thinking about replacing the subwoofer with the 805 instead of the monitors, but it's probably too new a product to get a review.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

You will not get better bass in your 18sqm room with different speakers. 150 is better than 310 in small rooms because of more linear directivity.

 

[dasherzx]

With the subwoofer it’s mostly a sidegrade at best.

 

[slavenoise]

@DJBonoBobo Thanks for the reply. I see you're a 310 user. Could you briefly describe them a bit more? I understand I won't get better bass, but do they ultimately have a better frequency response, a bigger impact? Are they smoother in the highs, more pleasant? Sorry for the questions, but I can't listen to them anywhere; availability in my country is very difficult.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

@DJBonoBobo Thanks for the reply. I see you're a 310 user. Could you briefly describe them a bit more? I understand I won't get better bass, but do they ultimately have a better frequency response, a bigger impact? Are they smoother in the highs, more pleasant? Sorry for the questions, but I can't listen to them anywhere; availability in my country is very difficult.

I had two KH310 und two KH750 in my 15sqm room, along with 2 PSI AVAAs. After almost 10 years of trying to get them to sound perfect, i eventually gave up, sold the subs and AVAAs and switched the just two KH120IIs + MA1, of course. The 310s are in the living room now. If you look at the measurements, you can see the KH310 having a wider and less perfect directivity than 120II or 150. This means, if you have walls close to them, differences will be more noticable because of a bit more uneven reflections. They can play louder and deeper without subs, but i never needed that ability in my small room. Even my 120IIs almost go down to 30Hz with room gain, which is enough for me. Apart from that, all Neumann speakers sound very similar. Some say, mids of the 310 sound special because of the dome. In my experience, i don't know. Maybe in a very subtle way, but i don't miss them at all.
Under perfect conditions, the 310s can be very good and they work very well in my 36sqm living room, but my experience is, not in such a small room. As far as i know, they are made for regular studios which should be in the ballpark of 40sqm.
If you don't have it already, i highly recommend the MA1, but i don't think switching speakers or subs will get you any further.
BTW, the KH310II and also a new KH350 are expected to be released soon. I don't know a date, but there are already firmware files for these models in the MA1-software, so it is almost certain they will be announced not too far in the future.

 

[slavenoise]

@DJBonoBobo Did a professional acoustic treatment in my room because the acoustics were terrible—you couldn’t listen to music at all. That’s why the KH310 option is so tempting to me. I’d like something a bit more powerful, deeper, with more punch.My monitors are placed in front of the center of the room, equally distanced from the side walls. I obviously bought the MA1 together with the sub — really great software.
You actually surprised me saying that the 310 perform well in the large room size you mentioned, because whenever I saw studio photos or videos, they were placed in relatively small setups. The news about the new products is really interesting.You really got me thinking, although I have to admit that the urge to move to something bigger doesn’t leave me alone, and the idea of an upgrade is constantly in the back of my mind. The worst part is that with Neumann it’s hard to get a proper delivery or even a chance to audition them. By the way, at what distance do you listen to the KH120 II and the KH310, and at what SPL?

 

[markstein]

Without knowing the KH150 (I use the KH120A in a nearfield desk setup and the KH310 plus 2x KH810 in my living room - both for "pleasure listening*), I would recommend to get 1-2x additional subs and improve your in-room bass response. Read Floyd Tooles' book or the relevant Todd Welti papers and learn to use MSO.
My personal experience is that improving the bass quality in my living room improved my subjective listening pleasure significantly (mainly a more spacious "3D" sound field, and a more "relaxed" sound from the mains).

 

[dfuller]

The KH310 is in some ways better and some ways worse than the 150; in others, it's just different.

It's better in the sense that it's got lower bass extension (LFX 30hz vs 36, plus more gradual roll-off from the sealed box) and has a somewhat more linear sound power behavior (the 150 has a pretty obvious kink around the XO caused by the vertical "pinch" plus the large waveguide, where the 310 has a somewhat more benign horizontal "one toothed comb" from the driver arrangement); and its upper midrange IMD (KH310 has a mid driver, so lacks that doppler peak; it has one lower about 500hz)
It's considerably worse in its LF-LMF distortion behavior sans sub because it's a very small sealed box, and its driver layout is less than optimal (3 vertical would be better) and its horizontal dispersion behavior suffers from this somewhat.

They're different in that the KH310 has a considerably more gradual roll-off to its power response, so its in room response is a bit brighter than the 150 (which is easily the darkest of the Neumanns).

 

[slavenoise]

I had two KH310 und two KH750 in my 15sqm room, along with 2 PSI AVAAs. After

If you had two subs, did it give you a bigger mid-bass boost, or did it just even it out in the room and give you the feeling of more low-end bass? I've never tested a pair of subs; the largest I had at home was a Rel T9X
.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

If you had two subs, did it give you a bigger mid-bass boost, or did it just even it out in the room and give you the feeling of more low-end bass? I've never tested a pair of subs; the largest I had at home was a Rel T9X
.

I can't answer these questions, all i wanted was a neutral response. Using two or more subs can help, if you are lucky. Maybe this helps?

Neumann MA1 vs. Dirac Live Bass Control (DLBC) - Dual KH750 subs

Hello, i have a dual sub Neumann system (2x KH310, 2x KH750 DSP). I use the MA1 microphone and software for room EQ. I also own a Dirac Live license (PC standalone) that i have not used for a long time. Because Dirac released DLBC, i decided to get the trial version and compare the results of...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[slavenoise]

@DJBonoBobo @dfuller Zrobiłem parę testów, trochę poczytałem i doszedłem do wniosków, iż imo monitory brzmią poprawniej bez suba, a już tłumaczę dlaczego (na przykładzie utworu poniżej ) w którym bas pojawia się po lewej stronie głośnika, dodając jednego suba i stawiając go między monitorami, bas uderza z lewej strony i na środku,a dzieje się tak, iż niskie częstotliwości z suba są w mono i zawsze lokują się „na środku”, nawet jeśli w miksie są z lewej strony, chyba, że bym dodał drugiego kh750 ustawił suby po dwóch stronach monitorów ( tego nie próbowałem więc nie wiem czy grałoby poprawnie u odzywałby się ten tylko z lewej strony ) jeśli się mylę proszę o sprostowanie.
Trochę zaburza mi to obraz ponieważ nie posiadam monitorów do pracy tylko do przyjemnego odsłuchu i utwór brzmi o wiele lepiej bez jednego suba tzn poprawniej tak ja powinien dlatego uderzyłbym w monitory które dadzą mi większego kopa w dolnym i średnim basie od 150 albo 310 albo iść na całość w 420. .

 

[viktorapo]

The KH310 is in some ways better and some ways worse than the 150; in others, it's just different.

It's better in the sense that it's got lower bass extension (LFX 30hz vs 36, plus more gradual roll-off from the sealed box) and has a somewhat more linear sound power behavior (the 150 has a pretty obvious kink around the XO caused by the vertical "pinch" plus the large waveguide, where the 310 has a somewhat more benign horizontal "one toothed comb" from the driver arrangement); and its upper midrange IMD (KH310 has a mid driver, so lacks that doppler peak; it has one lower about 500hz)
It's considerably worse in its LF-LMF distortion behavior sans sub because it's a very small sealed box, and its driver layout is less than optimal (3 vertical would be better) and its horizontal dispersion behavior suffers from this somewhat.

They're different in that the KH310 has a considerably more gradual roll-off to its power response, so its in room response is a bit brighter than the 150 (which is easily the darkest of the Neumanns).

the LF-LMF distortion is worse on the KH310 or the KH150?

 

[slavenoise]

Does anyone on the forum have a KH805 II? Have you tested it on an 18.5m² surface? I can't decide between 2 KH750s or 1 KH805. Apparently, Neuman recommends the 805II for the KH150 as a better solution.

 

[slavenoise]

używam KH120A w konfiguracji biurka bliskiego pola i KH310 plus 2x KH810 w moim salonie - oba do "przyjemnego słuchania*), poleciłbym 1-2x dodatkowe subwoofery i poprawę odpowiedzi basowej w pokoju

Why did you choose the 810 sub? The 750 and 805 were too weak for your room? Did you compare the models? I can't decide whether to buy another KH750 or replace it with the larger 805II

 

[markstein]

Why did you choose the 810 sub? The 750 and 805 were too weak for your room? Did you compare the models? I can't decide whether to buy another KH750 or replace it with the larger 805II

When I bought my subwoofers years ago, both the KH805 and KH750 were not existing.

KH810 and KH805 have identical SPL but different connectivity. I think the KH810 II does not allow for a digital SPDIF input, only for a daisy chaining connection. A no go.

Today I probably would choose 2-4x KH750 in a small room as they are considerably smaller (shorter) and easier to place. Only one subwoofer is the worst option IMO and should be avoided in any case.

Or you completely dismiss subwoofers and go for larger mains (KH310 in nearfield should be sufficient).

You may search for the thread "bass and subwoofers" which discusses stereo vs mono bass and the pros and cons of both concepts.

'Bass and subwoofers'

Bass and subwoofers

This is the second in a series of follow-up posts to https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-of-lokki-bech-toole-et-al.27540/#post-950580, this time focussing on bass perception with a brief digression on subwoofers, since there's relevance to (reproduction of) concert hall acoustics. I’ve...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[slavenoise]

Or you completely dismiss subwoofers and go for larger mains (KH310 in nearfield should be sufficient).

I forgot to ask, are you happy with the KH310? Would you recommend it for comfortable listening? The KH310 is a closed-back design, and do you find the bass lacking in rap without a subwoofer?

 

[markstein]

I forgot to ask, are you happy with the KH310? Would you recommend it for comfortable listening? The KH310 is a closed-back design, and do you find the bass lacking in rap without a subwoofer?

Well, if you listen a little bit louder in a mid/farfield setup with bass heavy music, a sub (or two) makes sense. That is how I used them.

For nearfield listening you might be fine without sub.

 

[HQY]

I have 2 310s and 2 750s and align them with ma1. I'm happy with them. Not sure about 150.

 

[slavenoise]

@markstein @HQY I bought 310 and I already love them, along with the mt48u and kh750 - in the future I will buy another kh750 and it will be a complete set (I think it will be similar to the kh420) thanks to everyone for the feedback, best regards

 

[slavenoise]

@HQY

One more question: how did you calibrate the KH310 with the MA1? I'm referring to the connection method. With the KH150, you connect each monitor to the router, as well as the subwoofer and computer, so they're on the same network. The microphone is connected to the MT48U, so you can measure with the MA1. With analog KH310s, is simply connecting the subwoofer to the router and computer and the microphone to the MT48U (interface) sufficient? Or should I connect it differently? I don't have the MA1 with me right now, but I'll pick it up in a few days, so I'm asking.