Neumann KH120A or Genelec 8030C?

[Ron Texas]

?

There are 100 posts debating which of two well matched products is better. I think it's whichever you like better.

 

[PingWine]

I don't know how much audible it'll be, but the KH80 is better in every way, except warranty. I expect the relatively ragged on-axis of the 8020D to be audible compared to that perfection:

Everything considered, even with the lack of DSP control (I myself am using GNU/Linux, so no GLM nor Neumann app), the KH80DSP has all the advantages of internal DSP (inherent design and factory sample correction, phase correction and custom slopes) in addition to (or being the cause of) the lower distorsion and better vertical dispersion. And it even has some controls on the back, unlike the 8320/8330's which are GLM only.
About the subwoofer, since you don't want to use GLM, I'm pretty sure there will be no problem using the 7040/7050 with the Neumanns.

So, to your question: I'd take the KH80DSP without hesitation. And I also prefer the look and reliability of Genelec.

Thank you so much! I'll most probably get the KH 80's then

"KH80DSP has all the advantages of internal DSP (inherent design and factory sample correction, phase correction and custom slopes)"

What do you mean by phase correction and custom slopes? How do they affect me if I can't use the app?

 

[q3cpma]

Thank you so much! I'll most probably get the KH 80's then

"KH80DSP has all the advantages of internal DSP (inherent design and factory sample correction, phase correction and custom slopes)"

What do you mean by phase correction and custom slopes? How do they affect me if I can't use the app?

I mean the crossover being implemented through DSP and (some) phase correction being applied with FIR filters at the same time so you get this

not that it matters very much, but that's always nice to have.

See https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...kers-kef-and-genelec.13294/page-3#post-398114 for more about DSP based crossovers.

 

[maty]

Genelec 8030C Studio Monitor Review
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?reviews/

 

[YSC]

They have a short video too:

This is generally my preferred setup, though you need room EQ to really make it work its best.

but it seems placing the monitor that close to the wall will have elevated bass? any suggestion if I got a 8030 and put it at 5cm from a concrete wall shall I default the bass switch to -4/-6 db?

 

[LTig]

but it seems placing the monitor that close to the wall will have elevated bass? any suggestion if I got a 8030 and put it at 5cm from a concrete wall shall I default the bass switch to -4/-6 db?

Yes, if you have no possibility to perform a real room correction (measure FR with a UMIK-1 or similar and fix it with an EQ).

 

[YSC]

Yes, if you have no possibility to perform a real room correction (measure FR with a UMIK-1 or similar and fix it with an EQ).

Ic, yes it’s not feasible for me to do the measurements so I asked, I am thinking if according to the suggestion in video placing it 5cm in front of the concrete wall it should be relatively easy to have a setting for that which makes it perfect in FR. my other thought is to opt for the focal shape 50 instead as the size is comparable to the 8030, and their passive radiator means I don’t need to bother with wall distance. Plus it looks great

 

[LTig]

Ic, yes it’s not feasible for me to do the measurements so I asked, I am thinking if according to the suggestion in video placing it 5cm in front of the concrete wall it should be relatively easy to have a setting for that which makes it perfect in FR. my other thought is to opt for the focal shape 50 instead as the size is comparable to the 8030, and their passive radiator means I don’t need to bother with wall distance. Plus it looks great

5 cm distance is fine for a port, but the IMV also required for a passive radiator. If in doubt check the user manual.

 

[YSC]

5 cm distance is fine for a port, but the IMV also required for a passive radiator. If in doubt check the user manual.

thanks man, I read briefly from focal it seems their choice to use the passive radiator is to let the monitor locates right in front of the wall without frequency issue. but since it's a class AB and gets the back metal plate quite hot I kinda favours the genelec 8030C more, but that bass boost and no measurement equipment available pulls me back anad struggles for the focal

 

[q3cpma]

thanks man, I read briefly from focal it seems their choice to use the passive radiator is to let the monitor locates right in front of the wall without frequency issue. but since it's a class AB and gets the back metal plate quite hot I kinda favours the genelec 8030C more, but that bass boost and no measurement equipment available pulls me back anad struggles for the focal

All speakers suffer from that bass boost as long as they have omni bass; including that Genelec and Focal. And the 8030C has way better measurements if you ignore the fact that you're comparing a 5" and a 6.5"; the 8030C being exceptionally clean at nearfield levels, it's not even uncomparable.
Honestly, I'd really like to see what Focal can do if they go actually serious about performance.

 

[YSC]

All speakers suffer from that bass boost as long as they have omni bass; including that Genelec and Focal. And the 8030C has way better measurements if you ignore the fact that you're comparing a 5" and a 6.5"; the 8030C being exceptionally clean at nearfield levels, it's not even uncomparable.
Honestly, I'd really like to see what Focal can do if they go actually serious about performance.

I mean I wanna choose between 8030 and the focal shape 50 which are both 5”, but from the measurements it seems Frequency response wise the focal is comparable with the genelec?

 

[Joaquinín]

Recently I bought a pair of Neumann Kh-80 for a nephew who wants to make a career as a musical producer. I helped him to install them (nearfield, small stands on his desktop). He has a very basic set up (pc + Focusrite interface; the cheaper current model, I think). After a little tinkering (lowering the mid-bass to account for the desktop loading, and rolling off the bass in the DAW to account for the near wall positioning), I must confess I was speechless, the coherence and palpability of the musical "phantoms" infront of us were spooky. The colour of each instrument and voice was spot on and allowed to hear every nuance. I think the phase lineariser is really important stuff, specially if you are into music produced with natural instruments (and non-processed voices), or if you are a professional and want to hear the result of every minute sound processing. The SoS review mentions that the Kh-80 produces an even more 3-D/coherent music result than it´s bigger brothers, and I understand why. Now that the Kh-750 sub allows to linearise the Kh-120 (and even accepts digital sources, contrary to the Kh-80), that may be a fantastic combination...

 

[q3cpma]

I mean I wanna choose between 8030 and the focal shape 50 which are both 5”, but from the measurements it seems Frequency response wise the focal is comparable with the genelec?

I don't know about the Shape 50, but the Shape 65's FR is ragged and generally shelved after 2 kHz. Directivity is also (obviously) not very good, though it shouldn't be as bad on the 50.

 

[stevenswall]

All speakers suffer from that bass boost as long as they have omni bass; including that Genelec and Focal. And the 8030C has way better measurements if you ignore the fact that you're comparing a 5" and a 6.5"; the 8030C being exceptionally clean at nearfield levels, it's not even uncomparable.
Honestly, I'd really like to see what Focal can do if they go actually serious about performance.

Agreed. Have them make a monitor that uses a coaxial driver with their beryllium tweeter and use their engineers to develop a couple of pairs of dual opposed woofers to get crazy deep bass, and cardioid dispersion as low as possible.

 

[YSC]

I don't know about the Shape 50, but the Shape 65's FR is ragged and generally shelved after 2 kHz. Directivity is also (obviously) not very good, though it shouldn't be as bad on the 50.

ah I see your point, I was just comparing the frequency plots and found the shape 65 one available seems similarly in high frequency for both the shape and 8030C, albeit slightly more ragged but all still within -3dB which shouldn't be very noticeable? directivity don't matter to me as I am in strict near field listening in a small room (distance ~0.4-0.5m), what struggles me is I like the focal look more, but class AB amping without big external heatsink and the near perfect execution of the Genelec plus they have a desktop+bass tilt switch to overcome the near to wall+desktop situation attracts me

 

[EchoChamber]

ah I see your point, I was just comparing the frequency plots and found the shape 65 one available seems similarly in high frequency for both the shape and 8030C, albeit slightly more ragged but all still within -3dB which shouldn't be very noticeable? directivity don't matter to me as I am in strict near field listening in a small room (distance ~0.4-0.5m), what struggles me is I like the focal look more, but class AB amping without big external heatsink and the near perfect execution of the Genelec plus they have a desktop+bass tilt switch to overcome the near to wall+desktop situation attracts me

The 8030C have class D amps.

 

[alekksander]

have anyone measured how power hungry is the 8030C? wanted to measure it myself and make some sort of graph, but found my energy consumption meter dead… i'm mostly curious about idle — it's probably very low (i'm guessing about 5W each) if they decided to design the ISS trigger after 45minutes. wonder how switches on the back reflect on consumption as well.

 

[q3cpma]

have anyone measured how power hungry is the 8030C? wanted to measure it myself and make some sort of graph, but found my energy consumption meter dead… i'm mostly curious about idle — it's probably very low (i'm guessing about 5W each) if they decided to design the ISS trigger after 45minutes. wonder how switches on the back reflect on consumption as well.

It's in the manual. Idle power consumption is 3W while ISS is < 0.5W.

 

[YSC]

It's in the manual. Idle power consumption is 3W while ISS is < 0.5W.

So that sound like I can keep it on 24/7? Or turning it off when not using will make it live longer? Does anyone have experience on real life expectancy of previous genelec actives?

 

[q3cpma]

So that sound like I can keep it on 24/7? Or turning it off when not using will make it live longer? Does anyone have experience on real life expectancy of previous genelec actives?

Well, you probably could. ISS being completely automatic and reliable, it won't stay on all the time anyway.