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Neumann KH120A - nearing end of life and repairs?

elbenderman

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Hey all. So there are apparently some rumours of Neumann releasing a KH120ii in short order, as there was a mention of this speaker on some internal Neumann documents.

I am currently looking at the KH120As, and found a good price of 825 each Canadian (they usually sell for 969). However, I have heard there are some decidedly cheaper components on their speaker boards, and have heard people run into issues 5-6 into their lifespan.

My concern is that, from what I can gather, Sennheiser typically performs repairs by replacing the entire board. How likely am I, if I buy a new speaker now, to be completely hosed if I run into serious issues in 5-6 years? I am also dubious about purchasing products nearing their end of life for this exact reason (though I suppose there is no indication that Neumann will necessarily stop producing the KH120A). Likewise I can reasonable expect the (potential) KH120ii speakers to be considerably more expensive than the 825 Canadian I can currently pay.

I also understand that the Genelec 8030cs are very comparable, and that they offer a more reliable service plan.

Am I just worrying about nothing? How likely am I to run into serious issues?
 

Joachim Herbert

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elbenderman

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Tell us more.
The argument I saw online is that because Genelec is a smaller family owned business, they offer more stability in long term repairs.

The other argument being that when Sennheiser repairs a kh120a, it is believe that they typically just replace the entire board (at 200+€ per speaker). If the boards are no longer being manufactured in a few years, what would sending a speaker in for service even look like?
 

Joachim Herbert

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Sennheiser/Neumann still repair Klein+Hummel speakers. (which is the company that designed the predecessor of the KH120.

They too are a family business, hence the name.

What is wrong with swapping boards?
 
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elbenderman

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Nothing inherently? I think you’re taking what I am saying as an attack on Neumann when it isn’t. I just am not aware how a company like Sennheiser/Neumann would handle these future repairs. Presumably they won’t still keep making KH boards if the speaker is discontinued.

My real question is: do the members here, who know better than me, consider it a bad idea to buy a high ticket speaker when it is likely nearing its end of life?

You seem to suggest it is nothing to worry about, so that is great! The forum has so many knowledgeable members, and I do appreciate the help.

And thanks :)
 
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elbenderman

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I think the OP is worried that the boards won't be made/available any longer.
Exactly. Is the main process of repairing is dropping in a new board, and they aren’t making new boards, how screwed would I be?

I am just curious about similar experiences members may have had either with Neumann/Sennheiser. I have been burned a few times like this with electronics and was curious how the pro electronics market handles similar events.
 

Joachim Herbert

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Both companies do pro equipment only*.

Both have a great reputation in supporting their customers.

I own a KH750/KH120 setup and a pair of 8361a and am confident both will be serviced for the years to come.

But then, you never know. Both may (will) run out of spare parts somewhere in the future.

* Sennheiser divested the consumer business last year.
 
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elbenderman

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Both companies do pro equipment only*.

Both have a great reputation in supporting their customers.

I own a KH750/KH120 setup and a pair of 8361a and am confident both will be serviced for the years to come.

But then, you never know. Both may (will) run out of spare parts somewhere in the future.

* Sennheiser divested the consumer business last year.
Excellent. Thanks.
 

boxerfan88

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After end of sale, there should be sufficient parts inventory for a few years. How fast this inventory runs out depends on failure rate. The lower the failure rate is, the longer the spare parts remain available (unless manufacturer stops support and disposes inventory).

After spare parts run out, normally there should be parts available - extracted from scrapped KH120. Once that runs out, parts would become a problem. By that time, it’s better to replace.

My guess is that upgradetitis might just hit way before parts run out.
 

Markus @ Neumann

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Hello,

Neumann guarantee to repair at least ten years beginning by the end of production of a product. This is also mandatory especially for broad casters which are a relevant part of Neumann‘s customers.
Therefore the necessary components are stored in sufficient numbers. During the time the KH 120 is on the marked very good statistics exist about what might be necessary for repair cases.
As it was mentioned correctly even many decades old products of Neumann and KLEIN + HUMMEL are still getting repaired.
In wich depth devices or components are repaired depends on the related overall complexity. The effort Neumann is putting into the testing of PCBAs for example to guarantee the performance in terms of linearity, THD, intermodulation distortion, CMRR, x-talk, just to name some of them, is enormous. Repeating this in the service HUBs is very time consuming and equipment intensive. It is of course not an option to send out repaired devices not knowing exactly if the performance of it is exactly as it used to be when it left the production.
This is the reason why it is sometimes cheaper for the customer to get a replacement of a board rather than getting components replaced.
In any case all Neumann monitors are carefully and individually calibrated to their extremely low tolerance independent on if they are leaving the production or if they had been opened up for service.

Best regards,

Markus
 
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elbenderman

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Hello,

Neumann guarantee to repair at least ten years beginning by the end of production of a product. This is also mandatory especially for broad casters which are a relevant part of Neumann‘s customers.
Therefore the necessary components are stored in sufficient numbers. During the time the KH 120 is on the marked very good statistics exist about what might be necessary for repair cases.
As it was mentioned correctly even many decades old products of Neumann and KLEIN + HUMMEL are still getting repaired.
In wich depth devices or components are repaired depends on the related overall complexity. The effort Neumann is putting into the testing of PCBAs for example to guarantee the performance in terms of linearity, THD, intermodulation distortion, CMRR, x-talk, just to name some of them, is enormous. Repeating this in the service HUBs is very time consuming and equipment intensive. It is of course not an option to send out repaired devices not knowing exactly if the performance of it is exactly as it used to be when it left the production.
This is the reason why it is sometimes cheaper for the customer to get a replacement of a board rather than getting components replaced.
In any case all Neumann monitors are carefully and individually calibrated to their extremely low tolerance independent on if they are leaving the production or if they had been opened up for service.

Best regards,

Markus
Well this is about the best answer I could have ever hoped for.

I truly appreciate the time you took to reply. It speaks volumes about the product.
 
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