Neumann KH120 II

[audafreak]

have you tried with movies?

I tried or better say use for movies 2.1 or 4.1 or better 2.0 or 4.0. I bought for music but now also use 70% for movies in my living room. I have to say it is great. Of course depends on movie audio quality but newer movies have good audio. Sound characteristic similar to good cinema, of course depending on your room, my one is damped much more then usual modern living room. If somebody knocks on the door, you will get up to open it. And subwoofer is used much more in movies.
I am currently waiting for multichannel support in MA1, it is promised but probably even God does not know when it will be available.

 

[jmf11]

I wonder if there is software for the KH120 II that allows to configure the internal DSP without buying the MA1 microphone. In fact this is for a KH80 second hand buy. The MA1 new is 60% of the second hand KH80 pair, and you also need to invest in a phantom power supply for the mic to use it. I need the DSP feature. And I understand that the iOS is about to be deprecated (and I don't have an apple device).

So what are the available options to control the KH120II and KH80 DSP, without the measurement feature and gear ?

JMF

 

[unpluggged]

So what are the available options to control the KH120II and KH80 DSP, without the measurement feature and gear ?

To use the onboard controls.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

I wonder if there is software for the KH120 II that allows to configure the internal DSP without buying the MA1 microphone. In fact this is for a KH80 second hand buy. The MA1 new is 60% of the second hand KH80 pair, and you also need to invest in a phantom power supply for the mic to use it. I need the DSP feature. And I understand that the iOS is about to be deprecated (and I don't have an apple device).

So what are the available options to control the KH120II and KH80 DSP, without the measurement feature and gear ?

JMF

None to the extent the MA1 does it as it also considers the specific calibration curve of the MA1 mic used.

If you want cheap. Use a UMIK1 (which is already half the MA1 btw) and do your RoomEQ with APOEQ or Camilla DSP and don’t use the built in KH80/120 DSP.

 

[jmf11]

That's a bit unfortunate not to have "out of the box" access to the onboard DSP.

I was exploring the option have those very interesting speakers with a hifi subwoofer (without XLR in/out, low pass / high pass filter). It needs to high pass the KH80. If onboard DSP was usable as is, a splitter from the source to the KH80 // sub would have done the job. Not having out of the box access to the DSP means, as stated above, externalize the DSP part and more channels to drive separately the KH80 and the subwoofer....

I imagine that this is one of the (small) difficulties when looking at using pro stuff for home usage.

 

[auricom]

I wonder if there is software for the KH120 II that allows to configure the internal DSP without buying the MA1 microphone. In fact this is for a KH80 second hand buy. The MA1 new is 60% of the second hand KH80 pair, and you also need to invest in a phantom power supply for the mic to use it. I need the DSP feature. And I understand that the iOS is about to be deprecated (and I don't have an apple device).

So what are the available options to control the KH120II and KH80 DSP, without the measurement feature and gear ?

JMF

So the separately bought calibration set cannot be used without also buying special power supply for it??
Sounds like I did the right decision cancelling this order. I can get Genelec 8030C and a pair of nice subwoofers (used) for the price of KH 120 II + MA1.

 

[Curvature]

I would definitely not use KH80's and would consider purchasing pleasure listening speakers instead of KH120 II's. Neumann monitors are really designed as nearfield studio monitors - not pleasure listening speakers.... and definitely not for movies.

Stop saying stupid things like this please.

 

[teashea]

So the separately bought calibration set cannot be used without also buying special power supply for it??
Sounds like I did the right decision cancelling this order. I can get Genelec 8030C and a pair of nice subwoofers (used) for the price of KH 120 II + MA1.

I wonder if there is software for the KH120 II that allows to configure the internal DSP without buying the MA1 microphone. In fact this is for a KH80 second hand buy. The MA1 new is 60% of the second hand KH80 pair, and you also need to invest in a phantom power supply for the mic to use it. I need the DSP feature. And I understand that the iOS is about to be deprecated (and I don't have an apple device).

So what are the available options to control the KH120II and KH80 DSP, without the measurement feature and gear ?

JMF

You can adjust the highs, mids and bass with switches on the back of the KH120 II.

 

[teashea]

Stop saying stupid things like this please.

I would not use them. Others might. People have different standards and preferences. And watch your language. Read the ASR rules.

 

[test1223]

I have thought about trying to remove the grilles on my 310s to see if there's any audible or measurable change. I don't believe they're glued in or anything, just have to unscrew the mounting flange.

You will change the response in the very high frequencies by removing the grill. The tweeter grill of the KH310 and KH120 should be the same. On the tweeter grill of a KH120 there is an about 1cm small transparent plastic sticker which is used to smear the resonance frequency of the tweeter which is somewhere below 20kHz. It might also have a smaller influence on lower frequencies of the tweeter.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

I wonder if there is software for the KH120 II that allows to configure the internal DSP without buying the MA1 microphone. In fact this is for a KH80 second hand buy. The MA1 new is 60% of the second hand KH80 pair, and you also need to invest in a phantom power supply for the mic to use it. I need the DSP feature. And I understand that the iOS is about to be deprecated (and I don't have an apple device).

So what are the available options to control the KH120II and KH80 DSP, without the measurement feature and gear ?

JMF

For controlling the KH80 or KH750 you can use the Neumann.control ipad app, but it is not compatible with the 120II or 150.

See also: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-sennheiser-sound-control-protocol-ssc.38607/

 

[Curvature]

I would not use them. Others might. People have different standards and preferences. And watch your language. Read the ASR rules.

Whether or not you want to is fine, and I have no problem with that. My issue is that you are giving bad advice and supporting it with false thinking. You have a responsibility to yourself and others you aren't meeting.

Look at the technical features or measured results of the Neuman and give me some examples where the design is fundamentally different from another small speaker made by another audio company aiming at consumers ans living rooms.

 

[teashea]

Whether or not you want to is fine, and I have no problem with that. My issue is that you are giving bad advice and supporting it with false thinking. You have a responsibility to yourself and others you aren't meeting.

Look at the technical features or measured results of the Neuman and give me some examples where the design is fundamentally different from another small speaker made by another audio company aiming at consumers ans living rooms.

Read the Neumann website. Please don't be defensive. You can use them any way you want but the Neumann audio engineers who designed these monitors know best. They are designed as nearfield monitors - not pleasure listening speakers at midfield or farfield distances.

 

[dfuller]

Read the Neumann website. Please don't be defensive. You can use them any way you want but the Neumann audio engineers who designed these monitors know best. They are designed as nearfield monitors - not pleasure listening speakers at midfield or farfield distances.

What you said is absolutely asinine. They're more capable than at least 90% of small standmounts or bookshelves, which are regularly used in domestic rooms.

 

[teashea]

What you said is absolutely asinine. They're more capable than at least 90% of small standmounts or bookshelves, which are regularly used in domestic rooms.

I am sorry that you think that the Neumann audio engineers are asinine. I sure that you have hurt their feelings. Read what Neumann says about their own monitors. They are designed as nearfield monitors - not as midfield or farfield speakers.

 

[Curvature]

I am sorry that you think that the Neumann audio engineers are asinine. I sure that you have hurt their feelings. Read what Neumann says about their own monitors. They are designed as nearfield monitors - not as midfield or farfield speakers.

You said they aren't designed for pleasurable listening. What features in the design show that?

 

[jhaider]

I would definitely not use KH80's and would consider purchasing pleasure listening speakers instead of KH120 II's. Neumann monitors are really designed as nearfield studio monitors - not pleasure listening speakers.... and definitely not for movies.

Genuinely curious, what performance attributes of Neumann (or say Genelec, Adam’s 3-way speakers, etc) do you see as differentiating them from “pleasure listening speakers,” and vice versa? No bullshit hand waving, no reckless appeals to marketing as authority, strictly from the data. What about their measured performance, compared to e.g. Dutch & Dutch or KEF or Revel or PSB or Arendal or Perlisten etc, disqualifies Neumann as a “pleasure listening” speaker line?

 

[Ellebob]

There is nothing that disqualifies this as a "pleasure listening" speaker. I see this misinformation spread all the time because the speaker is labeled a near field monitor. Most near field monitors design are not anything different than the average bookshelf speaker made for home use. Near field is a designation the pro world uses. There is two criteria that defines a near field and most home bookshelves would also be called near field in the pro world.

One criteria is volume level that a speaker can achieve. A small speaker whather a bookshelf or nearfield monitor can only reach reference levels or even near reference if sitting very close. So if one wants to play very loud at a few meters of greater way, they need a bigger speaker. A small speaker simply won't cut it. Sound disperses based off of physics and all because something is labeled near field does not mean it will sound lousy in the midfield or far field, but simply just can't play as loud.

The other criteria which defines near field is if the sound is combined between all the drivers, woofer, mid-range, tweeter at a close distance less than a meter away. So if you had a very large speaker, like a tower speaker on a desk a half meter away you would only hear the drivers that are closer to your ear, the sound wouldn't be combined yet. This type of speaker would be more for the midfield or far field depending on its output capabilities and where the drivers have a combined sound.

Neumann classifies this speaker as a nearfield for the pro market. Many of the Genelec near field monitors also have a home version like the 8010 and the G1, or the 8020 and the G2, etc. They all the sound the same and the only difference between those speakers is some features. Like the home version will have an RCA input instead of a balanced connection, and the home version can turn off the LED on the front. Other than that it's the same speaker. But if you look at the monitor side, you will see a chart with recommended listening distances for the pro world. This has to do with being able to reach a certain volume level at a given distance and is the sound combined at that distance. That's all!

I wish people would stop saying nearfield monitors can't be used farther away in a home. They certainly can!

 

[DJBonoBobo]

I wish people would stop saying nearfield monitors can't be used farther away in a home. They certainly can!

Yes, on the other hand there are home speakers that can be subjectively good for "pleasure listening" (depending on preferences) but are not suitable for studio use.
I was in a holiday apartment recently and my partner praised the sound of the diffuse and overly bassy speakers there (we have KH120 in our own living room)... Disappointing, but that's life... ;-)

 

[mj30250]

All of this nonsense stems from:

Which makes sense in the context of studio monitoring usage, as in that scenario the listener should hear as much direct sound, and as little of the room, as possible. For "pleasure listening", this is less important, and in fact many people prefer some contribution from a typical room as reflections can provide a sense of spaciousness. Of course, for that use, a given speaker should perform well off-axis. Every current Neumann monitor certainly checks that box.

I'd happily put my KH 150s up against any 2-way speaker remotely in its size class for "pleasure listening" at reasonable distances (I'm fortunate to have a couple very competent examples in the house), and I would expect them to compare extremely well.