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Neumann KH120 II

MrSoul4470

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You think so? Houston, we have a problem. ;)
 

MrSoul4470

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Just quick.... Oh. Yes. They sound very different. It's that "in your face" Neumann sound. They look good, but I think the painting is better on the Genelecs. Still, they have a quality look.
I'll write more later. Have to get use to them a bit.

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Pearljam5000

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Wow the comparison I've been waiting for for for years
congrats they look great :)
In general what made you get them over the KH150 ?
 
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MrSoul4470

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Okay. No, they don't sound so different in general. I take that back. Where they really sound different though is voices. They seem much closer with more body on the Neumanns. Like you can reach out and touch the singer. With my Genelecs they always sound kind of distant and "ghostly" (sorry for my horrible sound descriptions). You definitely often feel closer to the music with the Neumanns, BUT especially with instrumentals sometimes I couldn't hear ANY difference between them. If I didn't know what speaker was playing I wouldn't be able to tell even when I sit just 1 meter away.
I don't think the Genelecs sound brighter. I compared the old KH 120 once before and thought it was darker. Today I didn't think it was.
Genelecs sound softer, the Neumanns more agressive maybe. I think you can hear more high frequency detail with the Genelecs, like reverbs but more midrange detail like in voices or acoustic guitar with the Neumanns. And again, sometimes it's damn hard to hear a difference at all. Really depends on the material you listen to.
Switching back and forth between the two sometimes the Genelecs are a bit boring, but incredibly clean. Neumanns sometimes dirtier but maybe more fun.
Making a decision between the two will really be a hard job. Considering the price difference the Neumanns would be the clear winner.
 
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JustCoolin‘

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Will you make decision between the two? I am *that* close to buying a pair of KH 150s, but I have the perfect excuse that I *need* my current KH120s elsewhere. *Need*, like.
 

MrSoul4470

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Wow the comparison I've been waiting for for for years
congrats they look great :)
In general what made you get them over the KH150 ?
I think there wouldn't be any benefit for me with the KH 150. I don't listen to music louder than 80dB and I never sit farther than 1m from my speakers. It would totally be wasted money. A lot of wasted money.
 

DJBonoBobo

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The comparison between the 8331 and the KH120A looks pretty similar indeed:

Regarding the whole darker/brighter thing: The only Genelec i ever heard was a 8351B in comparison to a KH150, and the Genelec sounded much brighter. But in this case, you can easily see the difference in the spinorama:

So, it seems it depends on the specific models how big the difference actually is.

I found interesting that the spinorama of the Genelec looks better (more smooth), but subjectively i found them too bright (almost hurting my ears) and liked the Neumann much more. So i am glad there are more great speaker manufacturers than just one.
 

Pearljam5000

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Okay. No, they don't sound so different in general. I take that back. Where they really sound different though is voices. They seem much closer with more body on the Neumanns. Like you can reach out and touch the singer. With my Genelecs they always sound kind of distant and "ghostly" (sorry for my horrible sound descriptions). You definitely often feel closer to the music with the Neumanns, BUT especially with instrumentals sometimes I couldn't hear ANY difference between them. If I didn't know what speaker was playing I wouldn't be able to tell even when I sit just 1 meter away.
I don't think the Genelecs sound brighter. I compared the old KH 120 once before and thought it was darker. Today I didn't think it was.
Genelecs sound softer, the Neumanns more agressive maybe. I think you can hear more high frequency detail with the Genelecs, like reverbs but more midrange detail like in voices or acoustic guitar with the Neumanns. And again, sometimes it's damn hard to hear a difference at all. Really depends on the material you listen to.
Switching back and forth between the two sometimes the Genelecs are a bit boring, but incredibly clean. Neumanns sometimes dirtier but maybe more fun.
Making a decision between the two will really be a hard job. Considering the price difference the Neumanns would be the clear winner.
Great impressions thanks
I wonder How you felt if you had the 8351 or 8361 with the bigger drivers
I think they'll sound different to 8331/8341
By "dirtier " do you mean they are less detailed or that the details are harder to hear on them ?
 

teashea

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If someone of Neumann reads this thread:
Please,please,PLEASE don't make them sound as bright as Gens.

PS: Please?
Neumann has shown an unaltering devoition to making their monitors have a flat frequency response. The musings of those who do not understand the importance of a flat freqency response will not influence Neumann in any way. Just look at the frequency response graph of the KH150. It is remarkable. Perhaps the flatest frequency response of any monitor ever made. Watch Amir's new YouTube video on this.
 

teashea

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Measurements are nothing compared to real world listening
In a blind test I'd know in a second which is which .
First, you have shown no ability to do this. Second, if you want subjective evaluation, what are you doing on ASR? It is the anthesis of elevating subjective impressions over the importance of measurement.
 

HarmonicTHD

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The whole insane subjective brightness discussion can probably be explained by looking at the directivity and dispersion measures of the two speakers (assuming both are flat within audible limits). And also assuming the brightness is even a valid perception which got obtained in leveled / blind tests (which I also doubt, knowing where it is mainly coming from).

However I don’t have enough bacon in this discussion to look it up.

Those who (as always) want to continue going around in circles, despite having gotten explained the difference and reasons several times are best to be ignored.
 

thewas

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So, it seems it depends on the specific models how big the difference actually is.
Exactly, the (over-)generalising statement of Genelec sounding brighter due to wider directivity only holds when comparing similar models between the two brands, larger models with larger midwoofers engineered for larger listening distances have of usually higher directivity.
 

Pearljam5000

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First, you have shown no ability to do this. Second, if you want subjective evaluation, what are you doing on ASR? It is the anthesis of elevating subjective impressions over the importance of measurement.
I'm totally capable of it
Measurements are important but they don't tell the whole story
 

teashea

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Why are you here on ASR? Go read Stereophile.
 

CMB

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The comparison between the 8331 and the KH120A looks pretty similar indeed:

Regarding the whole darker/brighter thing: The only Genelec i ever heard was a 8351B in comparison to a KH150, and the Genelec sounded much brighter. But in this case, you can easily see the difference in the spinorama:

So, it seems it depends on the specific models how big the difference actually is.

I found interesting that the spinorama of the Genelec looks better (more smooth), but subjectively i found them too bright (almost hurting my ears) and liked the Neumann much more. So i am glad there are more great speaker manufacturers than just one.
Wouldn't this whole darker/brighter thing be something that could easily resolved with GLM/EQ?
 

mj30250

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Okay. No, they don't sound so different in general. I take that back. Where they really sound different though is voices. They seem much closer with more body on the Neumanns. Like you can reach out and touch the singer. With my Genelecs they always sound kind of distant and "ghostly" (sorry for my horrible sound descriptions). You definitely often feel closer to the music with the Neumanns, BUT especially with instrumentals sometimes I couldn't hear ANY difference between them. If I didn't know what speaker was playing I wouldn't be able to tell even when I sit just 1 meter away.
I don't think the Genelecs sound brighter. I compared the old KH 120 once before and thought it was darker. Today I didn't think it was.
Genelecs sound softer, the Neumanns more agressive maybe. I think you can hear more high frequency detail with the Genelecs, like reverbs but more midrange detail like in voices or acoustic guitar with the Neumanns. And again, sometimes it's damn hard to hear a difference at all. Really depends on the material you listen to.
Switching back and forth between the two sometimes the Genelecs are a bit boring, but incredibly clean. Neumanns sometimes dirtier but maybe more fun.
Making a decision between the two will really be a hard job. Considering the price difference the Neumanns would be the clear winner.
I was considering the 8331s and ultimately went with KH 150s for the additional bass extension and volume, plus the fact that the Genelecs would have been nearly twice the cost. I agree that voice reproduction on the Neumanns is outstanding in a "I'm not sure how this gets better" sort of way. Anyway, do you find that the coaxial offers any audible advantages in nearfield use?
 
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