Neumann KH120 II

[Pritaudio]

Lots more watts than original version.
but how much of it is in spl off axis

 

[MrSoul4470]

Of course you can use them at any distance like any bookshelf speaker, but be aware you will definitely lose a lot of quality. It's not just that they won't go very loud. You lose a lot of quality due to the increasing room influence / decreasing direct sound. No, that doesn't sound the same and is just less loud. I listen to my Genelec Ones at way less than 1m. At 2m I can easily achive the same SPL (I have a meter), but it's just not the same. Way more diffuse, less detailed, somehow just not that focused anymore.
So yes, you can do that, but it's not giving you the best possible sound quality.

PS: For me it's clear: For maximum performance listen to your speakers at the closest recommended distance.

 

[MrSoul4470]

They seem to be available at some stores now in Germany. I am tempted. My wife said "Get them!". I already have great speakers and I'm trying very hard to be a sensible adult but my inner battle is still ongoing.

 

[FutureFrenzy]

I'm also debating whether or not to wait for third party measurements

 

[Moonhead]

A poor mans KH150,
not to shabby I reckon!

 

[sweetchaos]

I'm also debating whether or not to wait for third party measurements

See below:

I will see if I can get the KH120 II.

 

[MrSoul4470]

@Moonhead: Nah. Not at all. It all depends on your requirements. Here basically solely max. SPL wise. The smaller KH120 II could even have advantages in the midrange.

 

[dickiefunk]

I’m considering upgrading my KH120 + Eve TS108 setup and am trying to work out what would offer the best upgrade whilst being the most value for money.

My options are

1/ Keep KH120’s and change Eve Sub for Neumann KH750dsp
2/ Replace KH120’s and Eve TS108 with KH150’s
3/ Replace KH120’s and Eve Sub with KH120II’s and KH750dsp
4/ Replace KH120’s with KH120II’s and keep Eve Sub

My room is small and slightly odd shaped. Also my acoustic treatment isn’t optimal. I am monitoring at around 1-1.5m and am mixing a wide range of styles of music. Part of me would like to not have a sub and have less clutter in my room but I also don’t want to compromise too much either. I do use the Eve TS108 quite a lot and find it does clean up the low mids in my room a bit. Also, the TS108 has an excellent remote control which really helps my workflow. Even things like being able to power the sub on and off without having to crawl around under my studio desk makes things easier. I can also mute the sub at any time and have full control over every feature the dsp offers. The control for the Neumann KH750 seems a little clumsy in comparison?

What would you recommend?

 

[JustCoolin‘]

You lose a lot of quality due to the increasing room influence / decreasing direct sound. No, that doesn't sound the same and is just less loud.

But that is an universal rule that is generally true for every speaker, surely?

I‘ve recently learned here that more room influence also seems to be a matter of taste, and a wide dispersion is often prefered

Regards from Mittelfranken to Oberpfalz.

 

[MrSoul4470]

Objectively you will get "more" if you sit close to the speaker. Of course some will not like that, because it can be fatiguing or overwhelming. Some also just don't like to have their speaker too close in front of their face. Nearfield listening is different and it takes some getting used to. So of course it's also a matter of taste.

Greetings back from Regensburg!

 

[Ellebob]

There is some old world thinking which has been changed due to research. Yes, room has a big influence but it can be very positive influence. A lot of factors here but we also can hear through the room. So let look at some factors.

Years ago people used to think that if you use a more directive speaker that you would get better sound because you would get rid of the reflections from the room. The problem is that even a very directive speaker has an off-axis response. Place that speaker outside and listen to it off axis and you will still have sound. Well, more energy does go towards the listener there is still an off axis response. That off axis response is what we were going to hear from reflections fron the wall.

If that off axis response is similar to the on-axis response, research has shown we actually prefer that sound than if we were comparing to a response where we only hear the direct sound like in a very absorbed dead room. They have done this by comparing very dead rooms where you don't have any reflections. Those reflections are what give us spaciousness and envelopment and we prefer that over the direct response alone. Now if we have a speaker with a poor off axis response, they have found that the sound is more detrimental as the reflected sound does not match the direct sound.

In fact, when treating a room we will often not treat the first reflections if a speaker has a good off axis response, or we may use diffusion to expand that envelopment. So the advice that goes back 40 years putting an absorbing panel at the first reflection is often bad advice. However, if you have something with a poor off axis response at the first reflection than that can be good advice. So blanket advice of putting absorption at the first reflection point can actually be hurting the sound.

So which speakers you use and how your room layout has a lot to do with the sound. Also, a highly reflective room that has a lot of reverberation is not desired. So absorption is often needed in a room. It just might not be needed at the first reflection point. When we look at the design of many, the speakers that we discuss here like Genelec. For instance their design does not change between their smaller and larger models of the same series and their off axis response is often similar between those models. So going to its bigger speaker doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get something with more direct sound. There are applications or more directive speakers are needed and those spaces would also be treated differently.

There can be a lot more discussion on this but I have to run now. Good day everyone.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Can I reach 0 impact of the room on the sound if I sit as close as possible to the monitor ?

 

[JustCoolin‘]

Can I reach 0 impact of the room on the sound if I sit as close as possible to the monitor ?

I think you probably need Earspeakers for that. I love my Stax.

 

[MrSoul4470]

I think you probably need Earspeakers for that. I love my Stax.

Yep. Nothing sounds better than a Stax. Love mine too.

 

[dickiefunk]

I’m considering upgrading my KH120 + Eve TS108 setup and am trying to work out what would offer the best upgrade whilst being the most value for money.

My options are

1/ Keep KH120’s and change Eve Sub for Neumann KH750dsp
2/ Replace KH120’s and Eve TS108 with KH150’s
3/ Replace KH120’s and Eve Sub with KH120II’s and KH750dsp
4/ Replace KH120’s with KH120II’s and keep Eve Sub

My room is small and slightly odd shaped. Also my acoustic treatment isn’t optimal. I am monitoring at around 1-1.5m and am mixing a wide range of styles of music. Part of me would like to not have a sub and have less clutter in my room but I also don’t want to compromise too much either. I do use the Eve TS108 quite a lot and find it does clean up the low mids in my room a bit. Also, the TS108 has an excellent remote control which really helps my workflow. Even things like being able to power the sub on and off without having to crawl around under my studio desk makes things easier. I can also mute the sub at any time and have full control over every feature the dsp offers. The control for the Neumann KH750 seems a little clumsy in comparison?

What would you recommend?

Hi guys. I would really appreciate your advice and expertise on what would would recommend for my situation please?

Thanks

 

[MrSoul4470]

I think "3/ Replace KH120’s and Eve Sub with KH120II’s and KH750dsp" is clearly the best option here, though personally I'm not a fan of subwoofers. Though in that case maybe "2/ Replace KH120’s and Eve TS108 with KH150’s". But for sure I would not keep the old KH120. Great speaker, but DSP is just missing.

 

[dickiefunk]

I think "3/ Replace KH120’s and Eve Sub with KH120II’s and KH750dsp" is clearly the best option here, though personally I'm not a fan of subwoofers. Though in that case maybe "2/ Replace KH120’s and Eve TS108 with KH150’s". But for sure I would not keep the old KH120. Great speaker, but DSP is just missing.

Thankyou. I wonder how much difference the KH120II’s would make compared to the original KH120’s when paired with the KH750dsp sub using the DSP and MA1 correction?

 

[unpluggged]

But for sure I would not keep the old KH120. Great speaker, but DSP is just missing.

Why not, when you can just add a KH 750 DSP and have a complete DSP system with well-integrated sub + phase correction for the KH 120 + room EQ?

 

[Trell]

Why not, when you can just add a KH 750 DSP and have a complete DSP system with well-integrated sub + phase correction for the KH 120 + room EQ?

Perhaps the KH 120 II + KH 750 DSP is better than KH 120 + KH 750 DSP?

 

[dickiefunk]

Perhaps the KH 120 II + KH 750 DSP is better than KH 120 + KH 750 DSP?

Well as I already own the KH120's I would sell my Eve TS108 and get the KH750dsp which I regularly see secondhand from a store for £900. The Eve's TS108's tend to go for around £400 secondhand so by the time I've sold this the KH750 would cost around £500.
If I were to replace both the KH120's and Eve TS108 the total cost would be significantly higher (around £1400 using the current secondhand rate of KH120's).

I wonder if this would give me £900 worth of improvement vs keeping my KH120's?