Neumann KH120 II

[YSC]

Yeah what I meant was, the newer improved model but without the DSP for less $$$
Exactly like Genelec that has 8030, or 8330

I do think the dsp contribute at least part of the performance of new model, if they get an analog one likely they need to make extra R&D which will give you another similarly priced or even more expensive one

 

[teashea]

Time is the ultimate judge in some cases:

(from a quick search at the used market)

Those look like they have been through a war ---- irresponsible owner.

 

[3125b]

but with a more powerful / efficient amp

And a more capable woofer I´d assume (and maybe a new tweeter too to bring it in line with the other current models if the KH120 still uses an older model, not sure if that´s the case).

 

[mj30250]

And a more capable woofer I´d assume (and maybe a new tweeter too to bring it in line with the other current models if the KH120 still uses an older model, not sure if that´s the case).

I certainly could have missed an info drop, but I don't think I've seen anything claimed about a new woofer yet. I believe the tweeters have remained constant for many years. I'm fairly sure that the KH 150 tweeter is the same as the one in original KH 120's, for example. Of course, given DSP, different crossovers, and waveguides, they may not sound the same.

 

[dickiefunk]

I certainly could have missed an info drop, but I don't think I've seen anything claimed about a new woofer yet. I believe the tweeters have remained constant for many years. I'm fairly sure that the KH 150 tweeter is the same as the one in original KH 120's, for example. Of course, given DSP, different crossovers, and waveguides, they may not sound the same.

According to Neumanns NAMM presentation it has a new woofer

 

[mj30250]

According to Neumanns NAMM presentation it has a new woofer

Good to know, thanks.

 

[3125b]

With 8Hz better bass extension and higher SPL capability it pretty much had to be. They´ll probably do something similar to the KH150 where the excursion is limited electronically.

 

[computer-audiophile]

Mit 8 Hz besserer Basserweiterung und höherer SPL-Fähigkeit musste es so ziemlich sein. Sie werden wahrscheinlich etwas Ähnliches wie die KH150 machen, wo der Ausschlag elektronisch begrenzt wird.

... larger voice coil diameter, if I am not mistaken.

 

[Sokel]

Those look like they have been through a war ---- irresponsible owner.

...or someone had a really good time

 

[Pritaudio]

im considering these or the 3 way dynaudio lyd48.
I will be using them 2.2m-3m away in a home setting. Maybe some minor sound treatment at a later on.
is there a noticeable spl volume difference and/or distortion at higher volumes?

 

[teashea]

I don't know about the KH120 II's since I don't know anyone who has a pair, but I would not use KH120's further than 2 meters. (I would not use any small monitor further away). One needs to consider the physics of the situation.

Sound waves are a form of energy that travel through the air. As they travel, they spread out in all directions. This means that the same amount of energy is spread over a larger and larger area as the distance from the source increases. As a result, the intensity of the sound waves decreases with distance.

The inverse square law is a mathematical equation that describes how sound intensity decreases with distance. The equation states that the intensity of a sound wave is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the source. This means that if you double the distance from the source, the intensity of the sound will be one-fourth as strong.

 

[Ellebob]

There is nothing wrong with using a KH120 at 3m if you don't need loud, but modrately loud say 85-90db would be fine for many. In fact many people do that already with their B&W, Paradigm, KEF, POLK, JBL, name your brand bookshelf speaker of similar design with an ~5" woofer and 1" tweeter. These are no different in approximate capabilities than the KH120 used in the same manner. If one wants to reach reference level of 105db at 3m then they need a bigger, more capable speaker. There is no small bookshelf with a 5" woofer and 1" tweeter that is going to do that. So, whether the KH120 or similar sized bookshelf is good for you depends on your listening level. If you really want to crank it, nope, no way, go big. If you listen more moderately and maybe turn it up a little but not really crank it, they will be fine.

When you double the distance in free space you lose 6db of sound. In a home sized room you lose ~3-4db per every doubling of the distance. So if a speaker plays a 100db at 1 meter it will be 94db at 2m and 88db at 4m outside with an omnidirectional speaker. If we use a horn more sound will directed forward so that direction will start higher. In a room the decay is not as much and you will be still be ~92-94db at 4m.

 

[Pritaudio]

Yeah an spl meter at required distance when setup in room is always the best way to determine it.
too bad I need to have the monitor in my environment to check.

 

[teashea]

There is nothing wrong with using a KH120 at 3m if you don't need loud, but modrately loud say 85-90db would be fine for many. In fact many people do that already with their B&W, Paradigm, KEF, POLK, JBL, name your brand bookshelf speaker of similar design with an ~5" woofer and 1" tweeter. These are no different in approximate capabilities than the KH120 used in the same manner. If one wants to reach reference level of 105db at 3m then they need a bigger, more capable speaker. There is no small bookshelf with a 5" woofer and 1" tweeter that is going to do that. So, whether the KH120 or similar sized bookshelf is good for you depends on your listening level. If you really want to crank it, nope, no way, go big. If you listen more moderately and maybe turn it up a little but not really crank it, they will be fine.

When you double the distance in free space you lose 6db of sound. In a home sized room you lose ~3-4db per every doubling of the distance. So if a speaker plays a 100db at 1 meter it will be 94db at 2m and 88db at 4m outside with an omnidirectional speaker. If we use a horn more sound will directed forward so that direction will start higher. In a room the decay is not as much and you will be still be ~92-94db at 4m.

Consider what the Neumann audio engineers recommend.

 

[Pritaudio]

Any information whether the kh750 will take the load of these in around 100hz and below.
or maybe even a slightly higher frequency, if it is omnidirectional.
neumann should provide this advantage in dsp.

 

[JustCoolin‘]

Consider what the Neumann audio engineers recommend.

They literally „recommend“ listening distances for a specific, professional purpose/spl, which is not in contradiction to what Ellebob said. They also provide a general distance at which the speakers can be used, which is a lot bigger.

FWIW, my old Audio Physics floorstanders - for which a recommended listening distance never was provided - sound considerably worse than the KH120s at 1,2 or 5m… they *are* prettier though, mind.

 

[Pritaudio]

can someone provide the neumann link for these, as I can only find the older model on their website.

 

[dickiefunk]

https://www.neumann.com/en-en/products/monitors/kh-120-ii/

 

[fishergod]

Dear all,

as already speculated in the KH150 thread a KH120II will come soon and first pictures are avilable! No need to wait for the NAMM 2023

Pictures:

As expected, visually a lot of similarity with a KH150.


Data:
Not so much avilable yet, price of the AES version seems to be around 1.150CHF and of the non AES version 869CHF.


Source:
Shop listing -> https://klangstudio.ch/index.php/de...es67zweiwegedspgesteuertnearfieldmonitor.html & https://klangstudio.ch/index.php/de...0iiwzweiwegedspgesteuertnearfieldmonitor.html & https://klangstudio.ch/index.php/de...eukczweiwegedspgesteuertnearfieldmonitor.html

Also listed in the spare parts area of Sennheiser -> https://spares.sennheiser.com/de-de/catalog/search?q=KH 120 II AES67 & https://spares.sennheiser.com/de-de/catalog/product/509123-kh-120-ii-ccc


Best regards

The speaker has a nice design and the 245W combined output power is a very cool spec.

 

[Ellebob]

Consider what the Neumann audio engineers recommend.

Like others stated for professional purpose and required SPL. SPL is one of the factors which determine nearfield vs midfield. The other big factor is the sound combined between all the drivers in the nearfield which is often 0.5m - 1m. Nearfields don't suck further away, they still sound the same just can't play as loud. We can't use professional requirements for home requirements, otherwise everyones' bookshelf speakers would be inadequate for home use unles listening while sitting at a desk with the speakers on it.

Smaller bookshelf speakers have two major problems. One is they can't play very loud, especially the further you are from them. If loud is not desired then it is not a problem. The other thing small speakers typically don't do well is bass extension into the lower octaves. They can be supplemented with a subwoofer if those frequencies are desired and for many a 2.1 system is a good solution. YMMV.