Neumann KH120 II Monitor Review

[rolltide]

I'm interested in upgrading my Windows 11 gaming PC (with an MSI MPG X870E CARBON WIFI motherboard) sound system to these Neumann KH 120 II speakers. I currently have a Denon S730H, KEF Q100 pair, and Dayton Audio SUB-1200 subwoofer. I just play single player games like Cyberpunk 2077, Alan Wake II, and Baldur's Gate 3 (no music or movies).

Would I need to buy a DAC like the RME Babyface Pro FS to connect my PC to the KH 120 speakers?

Other than the KH 750, what subwoofer would work well with these speakers?

 

[staticV3]

Would I need to buy a DAC like the RME Babyface Pro FS to connect my PC to the KH 120 speakers?

You would not, as the KH120II has its own DAC built in.

You'd only need a USB->SPDIF converter, like the SMSL PO100 2024.

 

[rolltide]

You would not, as the KH120II has its own DAC built in.

You'd only need a USB->SPDIF converter, like the SMSL PO100 2024.

My motherboard has a SPDIF output that I'm currently using with my Denon.

Will that also work with the KH 120 II, or do I need the converter?

Then would I need a SPDIF to RCA cable to connect to the KH 120 II?

Thank you!

 

[staticV3]

Will that also work with the KH 120 II, or do I need the converter?

Since the KH120II's only digital input is SPDIF Coax, you'd have to buy an inexpensive ($10) Toslink to Coax converter.

But yes, the motherboard's Toslink output will work with the KH120II.

 

[jzpchen]

Similarly, from Amazon, I bought this: Optical-to-Coaxial or Coax-to-Optical Digital Audio Converter Adapter, Bi-Directional Digital Coaxial to/from SPDIF Optical (Toslink) Audio Converter with Fiber Optic and Coaxial Cable by ROOFULL. It works fine.

I am not sure if Denon or Windows 11 motherboard digital output is controlled by its volume control. Probably needs to confirm it.

 

[TA21]

I'm interested in upgrading my Windows 11 gaming PC (with an MSI MPG X870E CARBON WIFI motherboard) sound system to these Neumann KH 120 II speakers.

Would I need to buy a DAC like the RME Babyface Pro FS to connect my PC to the KH 120 speakers?

Other than the KH 750, what subwoofer would work well with these speakers?

The KH 120 II have an internal DAC, which you can use to skip over using an external DAC. I'm collecting below info from this thread, plus my experiences, using the speakers' internal DAC.

To use the internal DAC, the KH 120 II's only digital input is coax (RCA-type connector). Unless your source has a digital coax output -- unlikely on a desktop or laptop computer -- you would need a "digital interface" device that can change your source's digital output into digital coax, then use a digital coax cable to feed into the KH 120 II. There are more than a few inexpensive digital interfaces available out there.

The KH 120 II does not have a volume control for its internal DAC and amp. You would need to control the volume in your source, which can be cumbersome or create issues, depending on your setup. Or you would need an audio interface or other device that allows you to control the volume. Volume control would be in the digital domain, on the digital signal you feed into the KH 120 II. I think the Wiim Pro is the only game in town for an affordable device that can output digital coax with a volume control (in the digital domain). Beyond that, it's $2,000+ pro audio gear, which is a lot to spend just for a volume knob. I have looked for an audio interface that could do this, but the affordable ones with a coax digital output seem to only output digital at a fixed level.

For this purpose, you can get the cheapest Wiim Pro. (The next model up just has an improved DAC, and you would not be using the Wiim's internal DAC.) The Wiim is not the ideal volume control device: it doesn't have a knob, just buttons that are hard to see or feel. But it's cheap and it works for this purpose. The Wiim Pro only has an optical Toslink digital input, so you may need a digital interface device to connect your source to the Wiim.

I've used the KH 120 II's internal DAC. For that, I used an SMSL PO100 Pro to convert my computer's USB output into a Toslink output, to feed into a Wiim Pro. I then use the Wiim Pro to control volume, and use its digital coax output to feed into the KH 120 II, to use the speakers' internal DAC. (You'll notice the Wiim Pro has bluetooth. This will give you the idea to connect your computer to the Wiim Pro by bluetooth. Unfortunately, the Wiim Pro's bluetooth has very bad latency. If you are doing anything with video, you will experience a very noticeably lag in the audio being out of synch with the video.)

If you use the KH 120 II's internal DAC, the Nuemann montors can be a less expensive system than Gelelec monitors, which require using an external DAC.

I have seen virtually nothing online comparing the KH 120 II's internal DAC to external DACs. With the Wiim Pro set up, described above, I would describe the internal DAC as perfectly good and fine, about mid-fi level. However, I don't know how much of that is affected by having a digital volume control in the chain (the Wiim Pro): most digital volume controls chop bits to reduce volume in the digital domain, so no longer bit perfect between the source and speakers' internal DAC. I currently use a RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE as a DAC, and feed its analog output into my KH 120 II. I think that sounds better than when I used the speakers' internal DAC with a Wiim Pro as volume control.

If you use an external DAC, note that the KH 120 II only has XLR analog inputs. The speakers were designed for studios, where XLR is more commonly used than RCA jacks. Also, if you take advantage of the KH 120 II's DSP room correcton capabilities, note that it will internally convert your analog signal into digital, to apply the DSP processing, then convert that back into analog. You may not like the idea of your external DAC's output being reprocessed AD then DA by the speakers internally. I have not seen any complaints of latency issues with this additional AD and DA processing.

If you use a subwoofer, I suspect it is best to use Neumann's subs designed to go with these speakers. The sub handles integrating crossover with the two speakers, and is needed for DSP room correction across the three pieces (if you use that).

For nearfield listening, the Numanns have a nice purity and neutral "studio monitor" sound. I've written in this thread about what they are like in a hi-fi system (sitting 2.75 meters or 9 feet away), where you now have the effect of the room in the sound.

 

[somebodyelse]

The KH 120 II does not have a volume control for its internal DAC and amp.

It does, but it's only available via the network interface. If you want a physical control they have the NRC-1, or you can DIY one like https://github.com/jj-wohlgemuth/pyssc-level-controller

edit: as @unpluggged points out below, the NRC-1 doesn't work with these. While it has an EtherCon connector, it isn't for ethernet.

 

[Joaquinín]

The KH 120 II have an internal DAC, which you can use to skip over using an external DAC. I'm collecting below info from this thread, plus my experiences, using the speakers' internal DAC.

To use the internal DAC, the KH 120 II's only digital input is coax (RCA-type connector). Unless your source has a digital coax output -- unlikely on a desktop or laptop computer -- you would need a "digital interface" device that can change your source's digital output into digital coax, then use a digital coax cable to feed into the KH 120 II. There are more than a few inexpensive digital interfaces available out there.

The KH 120 II does not have a volume control for its internal DAC and amp. You would need to control the volume in your source, which can be cumbersome or create issues, depending on your setup. Or you would need an audio interface or other device that allows you to control the volume. Volume control would be in the digital domain, on the digital signal you feed into the KH 120 II. I think the Wiim Pro is the only game in town for an affordable device that can output digital coax with a volume control (in the digital domain). Beyond that, it's $2,000+ pro audio gear, which is a lot to spend just for a volume knob. I have looked for an audio interface that could do this, but the affordable ones with a coax digital output seem to only output digital at a fixed level.

For this purpose, you can get the cheapest Wiim Pro. (The next model up just has an improved DAC, and you would not be using the Wiim's internal DAC.) The Wiim is not the ideal volume control device: it doesn't have a knob, just buttons that are hard to see or feel. But it's cheap and it works for this purpose. The Wiim Pro only has an optical Toslink digital input, so you may need a digital interface device to connect your source to the Wiim.

I've used the KH 120 II's internal DAC. For that, I used an SMSL PO100 Pro to convert my computer's USB output into a Toslink output, to feed into a Wiim Pro. I then use the Wiim Pro to control volume, and use its digital coax output to feed into the KH 120 II, to use the speakers' internal DAC. (You'll notice the Wiim Pro has bluetooth. This will give you the idea to connect your computer to the Wiim Pro by bluetooth. Unfortunately, the Wiim Pro's bluetooth has very bad latency. If you are doing anything with video, you will experience a very noticeably lag in the audio being out of synch with the video.)

If you use the KH 120 II's internal DAC, the Nuemann montors can be a less expensive system than Gelelec monitors, which require using an external DAC.

I have seen virtually nothing online comparing the KH 120 II's internal DAC to external DACs. With the Wiim Pro set up, described above, I would describe the internal DAC as perfectly good and fine, about mid-fi level. However, I don't know how much of that is affected by having a digital volume control in the chain (the Wiim Pro): most digital volume controls chop bits to reduce volume in the digital domain, so no longer bit perfect between the source and speakers' internal DAC. I currently use a RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE as a DAC, and feed its analog output into my KH 120 II. I think that sounds better than when I used the speakers' internal DAC with a Wiim Pro as volume control.

If you use an external DAC, note that the KH 120 II only has XLR analog inputs. The speakers were designed for studios, where XLR is more commonly used than RCA jacks. Also, if you take advantage of the KH 120 II's DSP room correcton capabilities, note that it will internally convert your analog signal into digital, to apply the DSP processing, then convert that back into analog. You may not like the idea of your external DAC's output being reprocessed AD then DA by the speakers internally. I have not seen any complaints of latency issues with this additional AD and DA processing.

If you use a subwoofer, I suspect it is best to use Neumann's subs designed to go with these speakers. The sub handles integrating crossover with the two speakers, and is needed for DSP room correction across the three pieces (if you use that).

For nearfield listening, the Numanns have a nice purity and neutral "studio monitor" sound. I've written in this thread about what they are like in a hi-fi system (sitting 2.75 meters or 9 feet away), where you now have the effect of the room in the sound.

Haven´t you tried to use the RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE spdif output into the Kh-120 II? If the RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE volume control doesn´t affect the digital output, you could control the volume from the PC (assuming USB connection to the RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE), using a high quality software volume control such as the one in JRiver.

 

[unpluggged]

If the RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE volume control doesn´t affect the digital output

It does. And not only volume control, but the whole DSP processing, including EQ, B/T, dynamic loudness, etc. You only need to select "Main Out" for the "Dig. Out Source" setting. That's how I use it with my current speakers and with the HEDD Type 07 MK2 previously.

If you want a physical control they have the NRC-1

It does not work with the DSP-based monitors.

 

[Joaquinín]

It does. And not only volume control, but the whole DSP processing, including EQ, B/T, dynamic loudness, etc. You only need to select "Main Out" for the "Dig. Out Source" setting. That's how I use it with my current speakers and with the HEDD Type 07 MK2 previously.

Then, "theoretically", digital out from the RME ADI 2/4 to the Kh-120II should be better than analogue out. Unless the SRC inside the Kh-120 II is low quality (highly improbable) and you don´t feed it with 48khz. Maybe you can fix the digital out in the RME to 48khz (or do it in the PC source with a high end resampler such as the one in JRiver).

 

[unpluggged]

Then, "theoretically", digital out from the RME ADI 2/4 to the Kh-120II should be better than analogue out. Unless the SRC inside the Kh-120 II is low quality (highly improbable) and you don´t feed it with 48khz. Maybe you can fix the digital out in the RME to 48khz (or do it in the PC source with a high end resampler such as the one in JRiver).

Yes, it's possible (the ADI-2 Pro / ADI-2/4 Pro SE has SRC that can be used to fix the digital output sample rate to a specific value), but in practice I have no problems feeding my KH 750 DSP with any sample rate up to 192 kHz (not so with the HEDD speakers, where SR above 96 kHz leads to audible artifacts/loss of sync).

 

[rcstevensonaz]

Unless your source has a digital coax output -- unlikely on a desktop or laptop computer -- ...

Very helpful writeup.

On minor observation: the motherboard in many desktops will have an S/PDIF header that can easily be used for digital output. And of course there are inexpensive USB to S/PDIF devices as well for laptops and those desktops tat do not have an S/PDIF header.

 

[jzpchen]

It does, but it's only available via the network interface. If you want a physical control they have the NRC-1, or you can DIY one like https://github.com/jj-wohlgemuth/pyssc-level-controller

edit: as @unpluggged points out below, the NRC-1 doesn't work with these. While it has an EtherCon connector, it isn't for ethernet.

Indeed. You can adjust KH 120ii volume directly via the network interface. It works great. I built a Mac App for my own use based on the github. Hopefully someone will build a Windows App. With this volume control, you just need a cheap Toslink to Coax adapter. You get a pure digital signal path. I also add a little Toslink switch. I can switch between CD player (digital interface) with computer.

I also used another method - Topping Audio Interface E2x2 ($150-200). Other USB-C audio interface should work as well. Computer (Win/Mac) -> USB-C -> Audio Interface -> 6.35mm TRS to XLR Male -> KH 120II. You can use the volume control on the Audio Interface. It works very well. It is just not all digital. Another benefit of this setup is for room correction. You can attach the mic to Audio Interface.

 

[athlon7750]

Any chance you can switch to XLRs and see if it stops?

It happens even with no input signal, when the audio interface is powered off.

 

[Markus @ Neumann]

The KH 120 II have an internal DAC, which you can use to skip over using an external DAC. I'm collecting below info from this thread, plus my experiences, using the speakers' internal DAC.

To use the internal DAC, the KH 120 II's only digital input is coax (RCA-type connector). Unless your source has a digital coax output -- unlikely on a desktop or laptop computer -- you would need a "digital interface" device that can change your source's digital output into digital coax, then use a digital coax cable to feed into the KH 120 II. There are more than a few inexpensive digital interfaces available out there.

The KH 120 II does not have a volume control for its internal DAC and amp. You would need to control the volume in your source, which can be cumbersome or create issues, depending on your setup. Or you would need an audio interface or other device that allows you to control the volume. Volume control would be in the digital domain, on the digital signal you feed into the KH 120 II. I think the Wiim Pro is the only game in town for an affordable device that can output digital coax with a volume control (in the digital domain). Beyond that, it's $2,000+ pro audio gear, which is a lot to spend just for a volume knob. I have looked for an audio interface that could do this, but the affordable ones with a coax digital output seem to only output digital at a fixed level.

For this purpose, you can get the cheapest Wiim Pro. (The next model up just has an improved DAC, and you would not be using the Wiim's internal DAC.) The Wiim is not the ideal volume control device: it doesn't have a knob, just buttons that are hard to see or feel. But it's cheap and it works for this purpose. The Wiim Pro only has an optical Toslink digital input, so you may need a digital interface device to connect your source to the Wiim.

I've used the KH 120 II's internal DAC. For that, I used an SMSL PO100 Pro to convert my computer's USB output into a Toslink output, to feed into a Wiim Pro. I then use the Wiim Pro to control volume, and use its digital coax output to feed into the KH 120 II, to use the speakers' internal DAC. (You'll notice the Wiim Pro has bluetooth. This will give you the idea to connect your computer to the Wiim Pro by bluetooth. Unfortunately, the Wiim Pro's bluetooth has very bad latency. If you are doing anything with video, you will experience a very noticeably lag in the audio being out of synch with the video.)

If you use the KH 120 II's internal DAC, the Nuemann montors can be a less expensive system than Gelelec monitors, which require using an external DAC.

I have seen virtually nothing online comparing the KH 120 II's internal DAC to external DACs. With the Wiim Pro set up, described above, I would describe the internal DAC as perfectly good and fine, about mid-fi level. However, I don't know how much of that is affected by having a digital volume control in the chain (the Wiim Pro): most digital volume controls chop bits to reduce volume in the digital domain, so no longer bit perfect between the source and speakers' internal DAC. I currently use a RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE as a DAC, and feed its analog output into my KH 120 II. I think that sounds better than when I used the speakers' internal DAC with a Wiim Pro as volume control.

If you use an external DAC, note that the KH 120 II only has XLR analog inputs. The speakers were designed for studios, where XLR is more commonly used than RCA jacks. Also, if you take advantage of the KH 120 II's DSP room correcton capabilities, note that it will internally convert your analog signal into digital, to apply the DSP processing, then convert that back into analog. You may not like the idea of your external DAC's output being reprocessed AD then DA by the speakers internally. I have not seen any complaints of latency issues with this additional AD and DA processing.

If you use a subwoofer, I suspect it is best to use Neumann's subs designed to go with these speakers. The sub handles integrating crossover with the two speakers, and is needed for DSP room correction across the three pieces (if you use that).

For nearfield listening, the Numanns have a nice purity and neutral "studio monitor" sound. I've written in this thread about what they are like in a hi-fi system (sitting 2.75 meters or 9 feet away), where you now have the effect of the room in the sound.

If you use an external DAC, note that the KH 120 II only has XLR analog inputs. The speakers were designed for studios, where XLR is more commonly used than RCA jacks. Also, if you take advantage of the KH 120 II's DSP room correcton capabilities, note that it will internally convert your analog signal into digital, to apply the DSP processing, then convert that back into analog. You may not like the idea of your external DAC's output being reprocessed AD then DA by the speakers internally. I have not seen any complaints of latency issues with this additional AD and DA processing.

Hello TA21,

Please note: The KH 120 II is working digitally internally independant on the input format (analog or digital) and independant on if room correction is used or not. The entire signal processing as x-over, system correction, all limiters, phase correction as well as the individual alignment is done in the digital domain. If MA 1 is used of course also this alignment is done inside the internal DSP and all correction data are stored inside even if the network connection is removed.

Best regards,

Markus

 

[Miguelón]

If you use an external DAC, note that the KH 120 II only has XLR analog inputs. The speakers were designed for studios, where XLR is more commonly used than RCA jacks. Also, if you take advantage of the KH 120 II's DSP room correcton capabilities, note that it will internally convert your analog signal into digital, to apply the DSP processing, then convert that back into analog. You may not like the idea of your external DAC's output being reprocessed AD then DA by the speakers internally. I have not seen any complaints of latency issues with this additional AD and DA processing.

Hello TA21,

Please note: The KH 120 II is working digitally internally independant on the input format (analog or digital) and independant on if room correction is used or not. The entire signal processing as x-over, system correction, all limiters, phase correction as well as the individual alignment is done in the digital domain. If MA 1 is used of course also this alignment is done inside the internal DSP and all correction data are stored inside even if the network connection is removed.

Best regards,

Markus

I suppose dip switches to act in the analogue domain? I had the speaker for trial some days, switches filters and output control worked independently for the digital adjustments.

I guess input gain to work between the XLR input and AD converter as attenuator, and output SPL after DSP treatment. Filters also seem to act after conversion.

 

[thewas]

I suppose dip switches to act in the analogue domain?

If like Markus wrote above

The entire signal processing as x-over, system correction, all limiters, phase correction as well as the individual alignment is done in the digital domain.

it wouldn't really make sense to have just those additionally in analogue domain.

 

[somebodyelse]

I suppose dip switches to act in the analogue domain?

I very much doubt it. Much more likely they feed general purpose inputs on the DSP which applies filters according to how they are set.

 

[andlum]

Not sure if this is the best place to ask: I did the room correction of my KH120ii today, and this is the result:



I’m wondering whether I should further tweak this curve using the EQ in the Neumann software or leave it as is. I’m not entirely sure what is considered ‘good’ in terms of Hi-Fi—could this curve be very neutral and more suited for studio work?

 

[teashea]

Not sure if this is the best place to ask: I did the room correction of my KH120ii today, and this is the result:

View attachment 436009

I’m wondering whether I should further tweak this curve using the EQ in the Neumann software or leave it as is. I’m not entirely sure what is considered ‘good’ in terms of Hi-Fi—could this curve be very neutral and more suited for studio work?

That is fine. Don't mess with it.