Neumann KH120 II Monitor Review

[joeymezza]

Via the backplate controls or in the MA 1 software (System Level setting).

Thanks, I'll try the software as all of the backplate controls (output and gain) are both at the lowest settings already

 

[unpluggged]

Thanks, I'll try the software as all of the backplate controls (output and gain) are both at the lowest settings already

Is it still too loud? But yes, MA 1 allows setting the output level all the way down to 0 dBSPL

 

[Pearljam5000]

We need a dedicated thread about how to connect phone/streamer/DAC to studio monitor as this gets asked again and again(by me as well)

 

[joeymezza]

Is it still too loud? But yes, MA 1 allows setting the output level all the way down to 0 dBSPL

Yeah still very loud - looking around now to see if there is an MA 1 available to rent from any mutuals.

 

[unpluggged]

Yeah still very loud - looking around now to see if there is an MA 1 available to rent from any mutuals.

Why rent? I'm not talking about the mic, just the software. It's available for download from Neumann website (need to register).

 

[joeymezza]

Why rent? I'm not talking about the mic, just the software. It's available for download from Neumann website (need to register).

Oh cool, I thought I had to have the mic for the software. Not much information available about this product around haha.

 

[Miguelón]

To better connect them to a WiiM Ultra is preferably setting the coaxial output to same 24 bits/ 48 kHz of the DSP or doesn’t matter?

 

[jzpchen]

Via MA1 software, there is a System Level on the first page of the UI. That can adjust the volume of the speakers. I tried it in my setting with analog input. My question is whether this also adjust the volume in case of digital input via S/PDIF? The reason I am asking is that in the product description website the volume control is described in the analog input section. I haven't tried the digital input from, say my CD player, afraid of out of control volume level.

 

[unpluggged]

My question is whether this also adjust the volume in case of digital input via S/PDIF?

Of course.

I haven't tried the digital input from, say my CD player, afraid of out of control volume level.

I still wouldn't regard it as volume control (think of it more like a sensitivity setting). Each change in the system level setting is far from instantaneous because it manipulates the speaker's DSP configuration registers, not the incoming signal.

 

[jzpchen]

Of course.


I still wouldn't regard it as volume control (think of it more like a sensitivity setting). Each change in the system level setting is far from instantaneous because it manipulates the speaker's DSP configuration registers, not the incoming signal.

In a way I agree, when the system level is changed, it took a second and the UI refreshes. It does appear clumsy. Having said that, is this going to cause any sonic change other than volume? For example does it cause the need to redo the room correction? In my mind, the ideal volume change is near or a part of the DSP processing, when the incoming digital signal is upsampled to the internal bit width and rate ("32 Bit Audio, Processing 64 Bit double precision") and a "DSP operation" does the effect of volume control. I assume most DAC with digital volume does that way in the DAC chip.

If this is not the right place to modify volume, where in the signal path is? Currently my setup is Apple Music playing through Topping E50 and then analog to Neumann. Any recommendation so that I can take advantage of S/PDIF for pure digital path? I am not sure the sonic difference is audible by bypassing an A/D but is curious. Thanks!

 

[Miguelón]

In a way I agree, when the system level is changed, it took a second and the UI refreshes. It does appear clumsy. Having said that, is this going to cause any sonic change other than volume? For example does it cause the need to redo the room correction? In my mind, the ideal volume change is near or a part of the DSP processing, when the incoming digital signal is upsampled to the internal bit width and rate ("32 Bit Audio, Processing 64 Bit double precision") and a "DSP operation" does the effect of volume control. I assume most DAC with digital volume does that way in the DAC chip.

If this is not the right place to modify volume, where in the signal path is? Currently my setup is Apple Music playing through Topping E50 and then analog to Neumann. Any recommendation so that I can take advantage of S/PDIF for pure digital path? I am not sure the sonic difference is audible by bypassing an A/D but is curious. Thanks!

I think volume is volume, connected by spdif it will change digitally (not audible because of 24 bit depth), or on the DAC reducing the voltage: a single DA and AD is not audible.

Also on the Topping when reducing volume you alter bit depth but there are bits dedicated to that to preserve fidelity, same in Neumann DSP.

 

[unpluggged]

For example does it cause the need to redo the room correction?

Of course not.

In my mind, the ideal volume change is near or a part of the DSP processing, when the incoming digital signal is upsampled to the internal bit width and rate ("32 Bit Audio, Processing 64 Bit double precision") and a "DSP operation" does the effect of volume control.

Yes, that's why I control volume digitally with the RME ADI-2 Pro.

I assume most DAC with digital volume does that way in the DAC chip.

Most probably it's less sophisticated fixed-point calculation with filtering/anti-aliasing,

If this is not the right place to modify volume, where in the signal path is?

At the source.

there are bits dedicated to that to preserve fidelity

?

 

[jzpchen]

Does Neumann speakers expose their API for others to program? I am sure they have one so that the MA1 software can talk to the speakers. If I could make a little/sleek UI talking into the API, it might make adjusting System Level more smoothly.

 

[staticV3]

Does Neumann speakers expose their API for others to program?

They do.

If I could make a little/sleek UI talking into the API, it might make adjusting System Level more smoothly.

There are already a few projects on GitHub:

GitHub - jj-wohlgemuth/pyssc: Sennheiser Sound Control Protocol Client Implementation for Python

Sennheiser Sound Control Protocol Client Implementation for Python - jj-wohlgemuth/pyssc

github.com

GitHub - schwinn/khtool: Tool to query or change settings of Neumann KH DSP speakers

Tool to query or change settings of Neumann KH DSP speakers - schwinn/khtool

github.com

 

[jzpchen]

They do.


There are already a few projects on GitHub:

GitHub - jj-wohlgemuth/pyssc: Sennheiser Sound Control Protocol Client Implementation for Python

Sennheiser Sound Control Protocol Client Implementation for Python - jj-wohlgemuth/pyssc

github.com

GitHub - schwinn/khtool: Tool to query or change settings of Neumann KH DSP speakers

Tool to query or change settings of Neumann KH DSP speakers - schwinn/khtool

github.com

Thanks! This is amazing!

 

[jzpchen]

I did some experiment with the API. It works really well. I put together a simple UI. It discovers the speakers and does the volume control smoothly. I think it is the right place to adjust volume in the speakers with digital input. This will ensure the signal is not touched along the chain. Thanks again for sharing the API.

 

[athlon7750]

I have a pair of KH120II monitors connected via coaxial cable to an ADI-2 PRO. Occasionally, I hear brief ~0.5-second 'squeaks' from either of the monitors. These occur very rarely, less than once a day, and only when the speakers are on but not receiving any input. Has anyone else encountered this issue?

 

[jzpchen]

I have a question regarding the digital input. In the manual, it says the S/PDIF only works when the Control is set to Local. However, I have the Control set to Network so that I can use MA1 to configure the speakers including its Level setting. If I set to Local, I can only use the limited backplate settings such as SPL 95?

 

[unpluggged]

In the manual, it says the S/PDIF only works when the Control is set to Local.

It does not say that. It says that in order for the S/PDIF frame select switches on the speakers to work, the speakers must be set to local control, obviously.

In the MA 1, when you define a new setup, you select which speaker should reproduce the left channel and which − the right channel, and also select the input (digital, analog, default).

Refer to the MA 1 manual.

 

[jzpchen]

It does not say that. It says that in order for the S/PDIF frame select switches on the speakers to work, the speakers must be set to local control, obviously.

In the MA 1, when you define a new setup, you select which speaker should reproduce the left channel and which − the right channel, and also select the input (digital, analog, default).

Refer to the MA 1 manual.

Thanks! You are absolutely correct. After my initial MA1 setup, I forgot I have chosen the input methods: automatic, analog, and spdif. It would be nice in the current setup view, it shows the input method chosen. Currently it only shows the speaker serial no.(left/right), firmware version, logo brightness and auto-standby. Now I use the setup name to include the input method to remind myself.