Neumann KH120 II Monitor Review

[IamJF]

I don't have a MA-1.

You should try it. Pushes the system one step higher.

When you like the alu cabinet and don't use the digital benefits - why don't get a KH120?
While the surface of the KH120ii feels more plastic the cabinet is more dead as the alu ones. I understand the "feeling" but in terms of acoustics it's for sure no step back.

 

[IamJF]

I remember Amirm said in his review that the 8010a made the kh 80 DSP sound "dull". But I guess Ill have to test them out because everyones preference is different

For me the Neumanns have easy enough "sparkle", what the Genelecs deliver "more" is to much for my liking. In nearfield I normally set the Neumanns to -1dB on the tweeter which still gives all the details and is easier for long term working.
KH120ii is a little warmer as KH120 cause of more and deeper bass - balance is pretty on spot in my opinion.

 

[heflys20]

You should try it. Pushes the system one step higher.

When you like the alu cabinet and don't use the digital benefits - why don't get a KH120?
While the surface of the KH120ii feels more plastic the cabinet is more dead as the alu ones. I understand the "feeling" but in terms of acoustics it's for sure no step back.

I'm not entirely sure why the plastic thing is such an issue, since it's a thermoplastic. Unless you're listening outside in the elements year round, it shouldn't be an issue. It allows the speaker to be light weight and durable. Besides the measurements show it's a well constructed speaker. Either way, I'd take anything Genelec or Neumann.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

I'm not entirely sure why the plastic thing is such an issue, since it's a thermoplastic. Unless you're listening outside in the elements year round, it shouldn't be an issue. It allows the speaker to be light weight and durable. Besides the measurements show it's a well constructed speaker. Either way, I'd take anything Genelec or Neumann.

It's only an issue if you're looking for an old-fashioned quality feel, and if this is more important to you than the actual performance.
Like people who walk around with a heavy leather bag instead of one made of modern material that is superior in almost every way.
They can tell themselves the story that this is great quality that they have.

 

[HQY]

It’s just a tool using indoor, and I don’t expect to use them more than 10 years, so I don’t really care about they use plastic as far as it doesn’t hurt the sound.

 

[Pearljam5000]

It's only an issue if you're looking for an old-fashioned quality feel, and if this is more important to you than the actual performance.
Like people who walk around with a heavy leather bag instead of one made of modern material that is superior in almost every way.
They can tell themselves the story that this is great quality that they have.

Aluminum is better than plastic ,period.
More durable , can take way more damage if accidently hit/dropped , looks better , and even feels better when touching it.

 

[jhaider]

It's only an issue if you're looking for an old-fashioned quality feel, and if this is more important to you than the actual performance.
Like people who walk around with a heavy leather bag instead of one made of modern material that is superior in almost every way.
They can tell themselves the story that this is great quality that they have.

You touch a bag in daily use. So how it feels genuinely matters. Speakers generally you set up and leave alone. So looks may matter but feel doesn't really. And from arm's length away IMO KH 120 A doesn't look "nicer" than KH 80 DSP or KH 120 II.

 

[TheBatsEar]

It should be repeated though that the two same PIRs (which is just a computed weighted average) don't mean that they will sound the same as directivities and distortions still might be different.

They will not sound the same, but they will sound so similar, you might not be able to tell them apart or say which one you prefer. We are talking about EQed Genelec 8030A vs 8030C or Neumann KH 120 II vs Genelec 8030C, in a blind test, right?

The importance of directivity is reduced in the near filed (which i define as the distance to the monitor that has less reflected than direct sound energy, depending on the room below 1m or so). On axis measurements become more relevant in the near field.

The importance of distortion is probably more prominent, particularly with such small speakers and at very high SPL. I for one don't listen with high SPL, so i really can't say anything out of experience.

There was a high effort blind test between small active speakers on Youtube:

Their outcome wasn't as clear as you would expect:

In terms of statistics this was the result:

To me it seems we take differences in speakers a bit too serious. Had all of them gotten a subwoofer integrated and properly EQed, i bet the result would have been even closer.

 

[TheBatsEar]

I'm not entirely sure why the plastic thing is such an issue, since it's a thermoplastic. Unless you're listening outside in the elements year round, it shouldn't be an issue.

It isn't in terms of fidelity, as is evidenced in the measurements. But to me the KH80 DSP feel like cheap 90ies computer speakers. Genelecs stuff does not (at a lower price).

And from arm's length away IMO KH 120 A doesn't look "nicer" than KH 80 DSP or KH 120 II.

Agreed, looks fine today. Not sure what it looks like in two years of office life.

 

[thewas]

They will not sound the same, but they will sound so similar, you might not be able to tell them apart or say which one you prefer. We are talking about EQed Genelec 8030A vs 8030C or Neumann KH 120 II vs Genelec 8030C, in a blind test, right?

The importance of directivity is reduced in the near filed (which i define as the distance to the monitor that has less reflected than direct sound energy, depending on the room below 1m or so). On axis measurements become more relevant in the near field.

Definitely in such nearfield they will sound more similar, especially since they have the same configuration, my comment was more general, for example even in nearfield a good coaxial might sound different due to its vertical directivity without the usual crossover lobe and the corresponding table reflection.

 

[TheBatsEar]

There was a high effort blind test between small active speakers on Youtube:

And there is a lengthy thread about it on ASR too:

Blind Listening Test 2: Neumann KH 80 vs JBL 305p MkII vs Edifier R1280T vs RCF Arya Pro5

Shortly after completing the first blind listening test, @Inverse_Laplace and I started thinking about all the ways we’d like to improve the rigor and explore other questions. Written summary follows, but here is a video if you prefer that medium: Speakers (calculated preference score in...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[jhaider]

Agreed, looks fine today. Not sure what it looks like in two years of office life.

I think I had KH 80 in my home office in two homes for more than two years before moving on to KH 120 II. They still look new.

Unless they’re cleaned with horrific chemicals I don’t see a reason why they’d look any different 20 years hence.

 

[IamJF]

Aluminum is better than plastic ,period.
More durable , can take way more damage if accidently hit/dropped , looks better , and even feels better when touching it.

ACOUSTICALLY aluminium is not great! It's very resonant, no dampening from the material. You can cheaply cast funny shapes. And yes, it feels better as plastic.

A wood/plastic compound could be made acoustically way better - that's for sure! It provides some dampening and is still leightweigth.

When you knock a KH120 and KH120ii you get the difference. I recorded sound samples here somewhere.

It's ok when you like Aluminium - but ACOUTICALLY it's not a great material, it needs effort to make it work. Bite the bullet - that's physics, you can't change it with your liking for a material.

(Plexi glas or iron would both be a better material. But both not cheap to cast or very heavy. There is also a pretty good material named "wood" ... but that is too expensive when you want rounded surfaces (which we WANT!!!))

p.s.: I did a lot of material test - don't discuss technical facts, they will not change. Coincidence frequency perfectly shown from 6mm ALU (no dampening from the material) and significant lower Q with Plexi. 6mm Alu is heavier, dampening at lower frequency depends on the weight. You would need to copare to 14-15mm Plexi.

 

[Pearljam5000]

ACOUSTICALLY aluminium is not great! It's very resonant, no dampening from the material. You can cheaply cast funny shapes. And yes, it feels better as plastic.

A wood/plastic compound could be made acoustically way better - that's for sure! It provides some dampening and is still leightweigth.

When you knock a KH120 and KH120ii you get the difference. I recorded sound samples here somewhere.

It's ok when you like Aluminium - but ACOUTICALLY it's not a great material, it needs effort to make it work. Bite the bullet - that's physics, you can't change it with your liking for a material.

(Plexi glas or iron would both be a better material. But both not cheap to cast or very heavy. There is also a pretty good material named "wood" ... but that is too expensive when you want rounded surfaces (which we WANT!!!))

p.s.: I did a lot of material test - don't discuss technical facts, they will not change. Coincidence frequency perfectly shown from 6mm ALU (no dampening from the material) and significant lower Q with Plexi. 6mm Alu is heavier, dampening at lower frequency depends on the weight. You would need to copare to 14-15mm Plexi.

View attachment 363910

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While all true
There's no contradiction
You can make a speaker with an aluminum cabinet that also sounds great , like Genelec .
So it's not either plastic and good sound or aluminum and bad sound .
I'd always prefer an aluminum cabinet over a plastic one if the SQ is not compromised

 

[Drew456]

KH120ii is a little warmer as KH120 cause of more and deeper bass - balance is pretty on spot in my opinion

hmm, I've read a subjective comment or two (FWIW) that the 120II's actually seem a bit brighter in the top end compared to the older model, not warmer. Excessive bass will tilt the balance but you can always reduce it.

 

[IamJF]

hmm, I've read a subjective comment or two (FWIW) that the 120II's actually seem a bit brighter in the top end compared to the older model, not warmer. Excessive bass will tilt the balance but you can always reduce it.

Who wrote about excessive bass?
MY KH120ii is warmer as MY KH120 - compared next to each other in my (very dry) room. But just use the HT correction switch and reduce 1dB and you are fine.

 

[dshreter]

Aluminum is better than plastic ,period.
More durable , can take way more damage if accidently hit/dropped , looks better , and even feels better when touching it.

While all true
There's no contradiction
You can make a speaker with an aluminum cabinet that also sounds great , like Genelec .
So it's not either plastic and good sound or aluminum and bad sound .
I'd always prefer an aluminum cabinet over a plastic one if the SQ is not compromised

That's fine that you prefer aluminum, you should vote with your dollars. But to say aluminum is more durable than plastic is inaccurate. Frequent travelers would be very familiar with how dented that Rimowa aluminum bags get in comparison to the polycarbonate versions.

Various materials all have benefits, and it's usually more about their successful application than one being intrinsically superior.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Who wrote about excessive bass?
MY KH120ii is warmer as MY KH120 - compared next to each other in my (very dry) room. But just use the HT correction switch and reduce 1dB and you are fine.

Can you do a quick general comparison between them ?
Thanks

 

[Pearljam5000]

That's fine that you prefer aluminum, you should vote with your dollars. But to say aluminum is more durable than plastic is inaccurate. Frequent travelers would be very familiar with how dented that Rimowa aluminum bags get in comparison to the polycarbonate versions.

Various materials all have benefits, and it's usually more about their successful application than one being intrinsically superior.

Then why aren't cars made of Plastic ?

 

[somebodyelse]

Then why aren't cars made of Plastic ?

You'll find more plastic bumpers on cars than aluminium ones - probably the most similar loading situation to the suitcase example above. It's also been used for various body panels for resistance to minor dents and the like.