Neumann KH120 II Monitor Review

[Ze Frog]

Measurements are here in the forum somewhere. With KH750 you can also get the KH120 (if they are still being sold) imho.

Here in UK they are still available, and £499 a piece at one place I looked online as well.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Thankyou. Yeah, second gen is definitely more flat. Was just curious more than anything, trying to find cheapest way, and also outer limits of budget for when the time comes, see what's what. I'd love to stretch to Genelec 8341's, but I doubt that being a possibility. Shall see, already started off loading a load of my current stuff, so getting there.

The bit of non flatness at high frequencies you might easily correct with MA1 if at all needed.

 

[teashea]

Sorry if already answered somewhere, but how does the original KH120 stack up, and do we have measurements for both please?

Only if I was to buy these instead of the KH150's, I'm thinking I could buy the non DSP if I'm going to run KH750's anyway. Don't see the point in £250 extra if there's literally nothing else improved or added besides DSP.

Among others, I have KH150's, KH 120A's / KH750 and KH 120 II's. You can read my comments in this tropic and int the KH 150 topic.

The KH 120 II's and KH 150's are, to me, virtually identical except for the bass extension. They have flatter frequency response and less distortion than KH 120A's. The KH 120A's are excellent, particularly with the KH750. Depending on your room size and listening distance, I recommend the KH 150's or KH 120 II's. Remember that these are designed as nearfield monitors - not speakers. It makes a difference. All of mine are in very nearfield use - ie about one meter.
Search here at ADR for measurements and hundreds of comments.

 

[boxerfan88]

Nearfield monitors are not speakers. Huh?

 

[Rednaxela]

Oh no, not another round.

 

[teashea]

Nearfield monitors are not speakers. Huh?

Not to audio engineers and audio experts. There is a clear distinction.

 

[ChaZam]

Excuse my ignorance but did Neumann buy Klein and Hummel.
I could gagel it but I’m sure I’d just end up here so….

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Excuse my ignorance but did Neumann buy Klein and Hummel.
I could gagel it but I’m sure I’d just end up here so….

Yes. Already a while ago. That’s why the speakers are named KH.

 

[unpluggged]

Excuse my ignorance but did Neumann buy Klein and Hummel.

As recently as in 2009

 

[Ze Frog]

Nearfield monitors are not speakers. Huh?

I get what you are saying, but I'm in the UK and living rooms are usually small. Will be listening between 2-3 meters and I can always pull them nearer is needed for more focused listening sessions.

Even at 2-3 meters, monitors such as these are likely going to sound so much better than Hi-fi rubbish. For instance the hifi speaker that comes to mind for good measurements and actual engineering would be say the Kef R3's. However it's a crap value than compared to Neumann or Genelec monitors. I'm aiming for a massively reduced component amount in my system, I'm tired of chasing the next best thing as 95% of the Hi-fi realm is snake oil and stuff that is literally thrown together blind without any actual engineering and just given the company logo for cache and to lead people to believe it must be good. It's at the level of peak farce these days.

At least with monitors I know;

A- They will measure favourably or no studio would use them.

B- That I'm actually getting genuinely value for my money, a speaker, DSP and amplifier's in one package which would cost exorbitant money in the Hi-fi realm in comparison.

C- Trust. No Steve G sniggering to himself while he's reviewing it, no snake oil, no bull. With a studio monitor you get the comfort of these things have to be of a level of quality in all areas that a company in the Hi-fi realm can literally shrug their shoulders at because some influencer masquerading as a reviewer will convince the people it sounds good.

Monitors are just the way to go, a nearfield monitor will trounce a Hi-fi bookshelf, even if maybe I am ever so slightly further away than optimal. I'm done with Hi-fi brands, the industry is an embarrassment to itself and I don't want to give them another penny.

 

[boxerfan88]

I get what you are saying, but I'm in the UK and living rooms are usually small. Will be listening between 2-3 meters and I can always pull them nearer is needed for more focused listening sessions.

Even at 2-3 meters, monitors such as these are likely going to sound so much better than Hi-fi rubbish.

I am with you on this, definitely very good value can be found from equipment in the "Pro" world for home HiFi use.
In 1Q2023, I myself moved from "HiFi speakers" to "Studio/Pro speakers", and got myself a pair of Neumann KH310A, and I'm very happy with the purchase.

Monitors are just the way to go, a nearfield monitor will trounce a Hi-fi bookshelf, even if maybe I am ever so slightly further away than optimal. I'm done with Hi-fi brands, the industry is an embarrassment to itself and I don't want to give them another penny.

Just don't get misled by statements saying that Studio/Pro speakers are only meant for near-field use only.
Studio speakers definitely can be used in mid-field and far-field (within the speaker SPL capability) home HiFi setting.

 

[Arnas]

I get what you are saying, but I'm in the UK and living rooms are usually small. Will be listening between 2-3 meters and I can always pull them nearer is needed for more focused listening sessions.

Even at 2-3 meters, monitors such as these are likely going to sound so much better than Hi-fi rubbish. For instance the hifi speaker that comes to mind for good measurements and actual engineering would be say the Kef R3's. However it's a crap value than compared to Neumann or Genelec monitors. I'm aiming for a massively reduced component amount in my system, I'm tired of chasing the next best thing as 95% of the Hi-fi realm is snake oil and stuff that is literally thrown together blind without any actual engineering and just given the company logo for cache and to lead people to believe it must be good. It's at the level of peak farce these days.

At least with monitors I know;

A- They will measure favourably or no studio would use them.

B- That I'm actually getting genuinely value for my money, a speaker, DSP and amplifier's in one package which would cost exorbitant money in the Hi-fi realm in comparison.

C- Trust. No Steve G sniggering to himself while he's reviewing it, no snake oil, no bull. With a studio monitor you get the comfort of these things have to be of a level of quality in all areas that a company in the Hi-fi realm can literally shrug their shoulders at because some influencer masquerading as a reviewer will convince the people it sounds good.

Monitors are just the way to go, a nearfield monitor will trounce a Hi-fi bookshelf, even if maybe I am ever so slightly further away than optimal. I'm done with Hi-fi brands, the industry is an embarrassment to itself and I don't want to give them another penny.

Agree with all my heart.
High end companies castrate already expensive speakers so they can sell 10k booskelfs that need subs to have bass that is not laughable.

 

[mj30250]

Not to audio engineers and audio experts. There is a clear distinction.

You should share your expertise on this topic with Neumann, they appear to be very confused:

 

[Pearljam5000]

You should share your expertise on this topic with Neumann, they appear to be very confused:

View attachment 343510

He seems to know better than them so far

 

[Ze Frog]

You should share your expertise on this topic with Neumann, they appear to be very confused:

View attachment 343510

To be fair to Teashea, I can see where he's coming from. I mean to a certain degree, no matter how insignificant it may be in using these for beyond the nearfield, you may lose something even if it is slight.

Really though this translates to any speaker though be it pro or consumer. Main advantage of being nearer is the power required for a specific level and less room interaction. I totally understand why someone would take his view if he's used to a studio environment first and foremost. For the majority though it's a non issue in a Hi-fi setting. If I was to take up mixing, then I would situate myself nearer the speakers. There's also the argument the much loved Kef LS 50's are more of a nearfield speaker in an ideal world, but people listen to those in a living room environment and they are far less capable.

I'm really not concerned by distance as these aren't big heavy beasts that are going to be a pain to move, when listening casually I leave speakers in their usual place, when critically listening I tend to move them out into the room more anyway. I don't really live by the rule that a speaker will be put in a rigid spot and dare not move it. Obviously with MA1 and calibration that becomes a bit more of an issue as tuning for a specific spot, but then I'd likely set a profile for them at critical listening position that is marked on floor and for non critical listening they will be fine with the same profile in normal position.

 

[mj30250]

To be fair to Teashea, I can see where he's coming from. I mean to a certain degree, no matter how insignificant it may be in using these for beyond the nearfield, you may lose something even if it is slight.

Really though this translates to any speaker though be it pro or consumer.

The bolded part is exactly right.

How a speaker behaves beyond the nearfield is largely a result of its SPL capabilities, off-axis performance, and dispersion.

Are 120 IIs and 150s capable of clean, loud-volume listening at distances beyond the nearfield? Yes, absolutely. This only improves with sub integration. Are they going to pump a large room full of people with concert-level volumes? No, and neither would many thousands of typical "hi-fi" speakers.

Do 120 IIs and 150s offer excellent off-axis performance? Yes.

Do 120 IIs and 150s offer dispersion characteristics suitable for listening beyond the nearfield? That depends on listener preferences, speaker positioning, and the room/environment, as it does with any other speaker, but in most reasonable use-cases: yes. There are many wider-dispersion speakers available and there are many narrower-dispersion speakers available. Many are in roughly the same ballpark (though most are not nearly as well-controlled as these Neumanns). Teashea often (and rightly) says, "look at the data". I have, and see little-to-no reason why other speakers in this size class could be used to great effect for listening beyond desktop distances while the Neumann's can't.

 

[Ze Frog]

The bolded part is exactly right.

How a speaker behaves beyond the nearfield is largely a result of its SPL capabilities, off-axis performance, and dispersion.

Are 120 IIs and 150s capable of clean, loud-volume listening at distances beyond the nearfield? Yes, absolutely. This only improves with sub integration. Are they going to pump a large room full of people with concert-level volumes? No, and neither would many thousands of typical "hi-fi" speakers.

Do 120 IIs and 150s offer excellent off-axis performance? Yes.

Do 120 IIs and 150s offer dispersion characteristics suitable for listening beyond the nearfield? That depends on listener preferences, speaker positioning, and the room/environment, as it does with any other speaker, but in most reasonable use-cases: yes. There are many wider-dispersion speakers available and there are many narrower-dispersion speakers available. Many are in roughly the same ballpark (though most are not nearly as well-controlled as these Neumanns). Teashea often (and rightly) says, "look at the data". I have, and see little-to-no reason why other speakers in this size class could be used to great effect for listening beyond desktop distances while the Neumann's can't.

Personally I'm not really after concert levels. Sometimes I really think people forget or misjudge just how loud they listen. For me monitors will be completely fine, if I wanted super loud I'd just buy some party speakers.

I know you need headroom for transient peaks as well, but that's another thing a lot of people in both worlds be it pro or consumer make as well as people look at say 110dB max SPL and assume if they were listening and say 95dB they will be 5dB short, except that's rarely the case really as peaks are usually within a finite area of the audio spectrum at any given time, and different frequencies require vastly different power levels to achieve a specific loudness. And if there's a peak at say 4000Hz but a lull in output at that point in time at say 100Hz, there is actually plenty of power on tap. Obviously with music with big bass transients, that becomes more demanding, but that would be the same for any speaker obviously.

 

[Ze Frog]

The bolded part is exactly right.

How a speaker behaves beyond the nearfield is largely a result of its SPL capabilities, off-axis performance, and dispersion.

Are 120 IIs and 150s capable of clean, loud-volume listening at distances beyond the nearfield? Yes, absolutely. This only improves with sub integration. Are they going to pump a large room full of people with concert-level volumes? No, and neither would many thousands of typical "hi-fi" speakers.

Do 120 IIs and 150s offer excellent off-axis performance? Yes.

Do 120 IIs and 150s offer dispersion characteristics suitable for listening beyond the nearfield? That depends on listener preferences, speaker positioning, and the room/environment, as it does with any other speaker, but in most reasonable use-cases: yes. There are many wider-dispersion speakers available and there are many narrower-dispersion speakers available. Many are in roughly the same ballpark (though most are not nearly as well-controlled as these Neumanns). Teashea often (and rightly) says, "look at the data". I have, and see little-to-no reason why other speakers in this size class could be used to great effect for listening beyond desktop distances while the Neumann's can't.

And although I defended Teashea, I do feel he's a bit hung up on the for nearfield use thing, but I'm guessing he's largely thinking in the way a pro would. For 99% of us it is irrelevant, within reason obviously.

 

[Pearljam5000]

And although I defended Teashea, I do feel he's a bit hung up on the for nearfield use thing, but I'm guessing he's largely thinking in the way a pro would. For 99% of us it is irrelevant, within reason obviously.

I blocked him a while ago

 

[teashea]

Excuse my ignorance but did Neumann buy Klein and Hummel.
I could gagel it but I’m sure I’d just end up here so….

more than ten years ago I think