Neumann KH120 II Monitor Review

[dfuller]

Will the extreme low level of distortion make this audibly better than my kh80 or the LS50 meta?

The LS50M has truly silly amounts of distortion below 200hz for anything other than nearfield listening, so quite possibly.

 

[ehabheikal]

The LS50M has truly silly amounts of distortion below 200hz for anything other than nearfield listening, so quite possibly.

I have until 120hz covered by a pair of subs. So less of an issue except for between 120 and 200hz.

 

[thewas]

The LS50M has truly silly amounts of distortion below 200hz for anything other than nearfield listening, so quite possibly.

For normal home listening levels and not too far listening distances (ideally I would use any compact speaker up to w meters due to the direct sound) its distortion is not silly but rather typical for that size class:

 

[Grobi]

I ended up with the Node because of the physical controls with presets and the availability of eARC. For cables, you can use coaxial cables between each device (Node to sub, sub to speaker 1, speaker 1 to speaker 2). The sub uses BNC connectors, while the Node & speakers use RCA connectors. Standard RCA cables are fine with BNC to RCA adapters. I used the Laird cables in my post above with RCA to BNC connectors, Blue Jeans makes similar cables.

There are lots of similar options on Amazon.

Amazon.com

Amazon.com

Amazon.com

Thanks for your reply. Does the Node let you control the digital out via TV remote? I read somewhere that the digital outs are fixed. That would be sad.

 

[quattro98]

Thanks for your reply. Does the Node let you control the digital out via TV remote? I read somewhere that the digital outs are fixed. That would be sad.

I’m not currently using the HDMI ARC, but the digital output is variable. The Node is serving as a digital volume control between my computer and the speakers (optical from computer to Node and coaxial from Node to speakers).

 

[Grobi]

I'll give it a shot. Thanks you!

 

[Jeremiah Sheets]

As a 25+ year Mix Engineer I’ll chime in.
I had these monitors for a number of years and relied on them heavily (with a Focal sub). They were indeed very reliable as a reference source. However I found myself not enjoying casual listening on them and found that I was too clinical about mix details that simply didn’t matter. It took me out of the art and the music.

If I could afford to keep them I would have, but they would be moved to a secondary role for clinical listening.

If you want to hear EVERY detail at a reasonable price in a treated room in a proper listening position, these are really hard to beat. They are on par or maybe even better than the Genelec 8030C.
But in a non-critical listening environment, I recommend something maybe less… perfect.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

As a 25+ year Mix Engineer I’ll chime in.
...
But in a non-critical listening environment, I recommend something maybe less… perfect.

You mean: To other mix engineers who don't want to be reminded of their work every time they listen to music for fun?
Maybe it is like a professional photographer who uses a retro compact camera for his own holiday pictures instead of his objectively much better pro camera? That doesn't mean it is a good recommendation to hobbyists.

 

[Jeremiah Sheets]

You mean: To other mix engineers who don't want to be reminded of their work every time they listen to music for fun?
Maybe it is like a professional photographer who uses a retro compact camera for his own holiday pictures instead of his objectively much better pro camera? That doesn't mean it is a good recommendation to hobbyists.

Not exactly. It’s more like the difference between two very precise lenses, but one of them produces a more pleasing bokeh. Everything in focus is identically detailed and sharp between lenses, but one produces a background bokeh that exactly reflects the shape of the shudder, while the other smoothes it in a pleasing manner.

All of the important in-focus details are presented comparatively, but the background details - while still detailed and precise - are a little more pleasing and less distracting.

 

[IamJF]

I had these monitors for a number of years and relied on them heavily (with a Focal sub).

I'm pretty sure you didn't have the KH120ii but the previous model KH120
I have both and compared - the KH120ii is more relaxed for long term listening. Midrange is better and sound stage is VERY good - you should give it a try!

If you want to hear EVERY detail at a reasonable price in a treated room in a proper listening position, these are really hard to beat. They are on par or maybe even better than the Genelec 8030C.
But in a non-critical listening environment, I recommend something maybe less… perfect.

I had KH120 i my office - but could not listen to online radio with it's low bitrates. I always switched of after 30-45min, it was annoying. With KEF LS50 it was no problem (and higher bitrate streaming services also help nowadays ;-)). I also built a more forgiving speaker for my home cinema.
But when you are really into the music and want to listen to what your source can deliver - they are great speakers!

What do you use instead now?

 

[Jeremiah Sheets]

I'm pretty sure you didn't have the KH120ii but the previous model KH120
I have both and compared - the KH120ii is more relaxed for long term listening. Midrange is better and sound stage is VERY good - you should give it a try!


I had KH120 i my office - but could not listen to online radio with it's low bitrates. I always switched of after 30-45min, it was annoying. With KEF LS50 it was no problem …

What do you use instead now?

You are correct that it was the original KH 120. I don’t believe the second version changed acoustically with the box design, but added network connectivity to adjust DSP.
I’ve mixed on the KH 310 as well as ATC, Dynaudio, JBL (studio in-wall versions), etc.

I feel that the Neumann is like the Genelec and ATC in that it is so clinical that I would obsess over details like mouth dryness/stickiness or a violin bow improperly rosined. So detailed that I lost connection with the music.

That’s why a lot of Engineers like a good HiFi speaker like the B&W Nautilus or something more custom like Tyler Acoustics. Add the fact that the great ones are so pleasing to listen to that they are listened to for many more hours casually. I never really got to know my Neumanns or studio ATCs because I didn’t want to casually listen to music on them.

Listening to B&Ws are very familiar. Right now I’m using KEF R3s. I have much better results because I also use them for casual listening.

 

[quattro98]

The Neumann monitors in their DSP versions (either built in or added by the KH750 sub) have some adjustment capability with the MA1 system.

I found post 10 from Radix helpful in this thread. Post in thread 'Looking for post Neumann MA-1 auto alignment adjustment recommendations'
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...adjustment-recommendations.49629/post-1781489

With some EQ as suggested, I find the Neumann similar to a KEF Reference Meta system. My KEF setup doesn’t have room correction over a few hundred Hz. The MA1 software runs full range, so having the EQ to slope the target curve down works for me.

 

[IamJF]

You are correct that it was the original KH 120. I don’t believe the second version changed acoustically with the box design, but added network connectivity to adjust DSP.

That's not a matter of belive - they changed everything but the tweeter. Look for some tests and internal pics.
They didn't had DSP in the old one ... it's the same electronics from the KH150 now.

 

[Jeremiah Sheets]

That's not a matter of belive - they changed everything but the tweeter. Look for some tests and internal pics.
They didn't had DSP in the old one ... it's the same electronics from the KH150 now.

Good to know! I’m not surprised. I’ve used their U87 probably two dozen times, and I’ve used the U67 a couple times. I own a couple TLM mics as well.
The KH 120 was truly incredible for its size. I don’t think the new version would do anything for me that the original didn’t.

As I wrote, the KH 120 is too perfect for me as a main monitor. Improving it won’t make me want it more. Haha

 

[Ze Frog]

Sorry if already answered somewhere, but how does the original KH120 stack up, and do we have measurements for both please?

Only if I was to buy these instead of the KH150's, I'm thinking I could buy the non DSP if I'm going to run KH750's anyway. Don't see the point in £250 extra if there's literally nothing else improved or added besides DSP.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Sorry if already answered somewhere, but how does the original KH120 stack up, and do we have measurements for both please?

Only if I was to buy these instead of the KH150's, I'm thinking I could buy the non DSP if I'm going to run KH750's anyway. Don't see the point in £250 extra if there's literally nothing else improved or added besides DSP.

The KH120 II has a new and improved woofer and different amps, so not the same

 

[Rednaxela]

We have this.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Sorry if already answered somewhere, but how does the original KH120 stack up, and do we have measurements for both please?

Only if I was to buy these instead of the KH150's, I'm thinking I could buy the non DSP if I'm going to run KH750's anyway. Don't see the point in £250 extra if there's literally nothing else improved or added besides DSP.

Measurements are here in the forum somewhere. With KH750 you can also get the KH120 (if they are still being sold) imho.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

We have this.

Ah. You were quicker. Thx.

 

[Ze Frog]

We have this.

Thankyou. Yeah, second gen is definitely more flat. Was just curious more than anything, trying to find cheapest way, and also outer limits of budget for when the time comes, see what's what. I'd love to stretch to Genelec 8341's, but I doubt that being a possibility. Shall see, already started off loading a load of my current stuff, so getting there.