Neumann KH120 II Monitor Review

[solawind]

I'm not sure where the internal fuse is located, but the spark came from the woofer.

probably driver failure. what speakers are those?

 

[Xyrium]

For now, I plan to crank mine until the roof caves in, or they self destruct. I love my 8030C's, but that extra 5Hz really makes a perceivable impact. Then again, I could be fooling myself. We all know how this goes...

In the end, I've paid more for less in life, so I'm fairly happy with these. The next pair will likely be another pair of Gennie's though, because I'm an oddball who actually misses that egg shape, and the tone is so damned close that only the next size up, like the 8340 will do. Well, and they teamed up with Bjork, I guess.

 

[Pritaudio]

I bought a pair as I wanted, together with an MA-1 and a Scarlett 16i16. I think I'll return everything.

The sound wasn't impressive in my bedroom, where I used them as PC speakers. I guess in a poorly-treated room, it's the room which defines the sound, not the speakers? I didn't feel a huge difference to my LSR 305 MkII. Maybe I don't know what to listen for?

Still, I'd keep them if this was the only problem. After all, they hiss much-much less than my LSR 305, which is something I care about a lot.

But they are:

• Super hot while on but not playing anything. Should two good class-D amps and a DSP waste so much energy while idling or is this just bad engineering? How can you even design it like this? I guess Class-D amps constantly switch their output MOSFETs to produce even zero output voltage, but that's why you spec in good MOSFETs and drive them properly, no? I'm not an EE though.
• Continuing reports of them failing. Maybe the high temperature is one of the reasons. If they are so hot on the outside, how hot should be the components inside that produce this heat! Again bad engineering.
• The software sucks. Not because I have to use a network switch and everything—I'm OK with this and I understand how it all works. But it's just badly written. For example, controlling the volume from the software has a few seconds lag. It's not the speakers that lag because when I control the volume from a Raspberry Pi using the pyssc library, it takes an order of 100 ms (I created a cool hardware volume controller for KH 120 II to which I planned adding EQ controls later too, like on a cool mixing console). What is the software doing all those seconds?
• The calibration itself turned out to be a very questionable thing. I didn't have experience with it before MA-1. Turns out, you calibrate your speakers, then you move them a bit (e.g. lift the standing desk a bit) or you move yourself, and it's already measurably off. As I understood, outside of studios perhaps, one recommendation is to calibrate only the low frequencies, to remove boomy sounds. However, MA-1 calibrates everything up to 20 kHz, and you can't control this.
• What MA-1 software shows as the "calibrated response" looks quite a bit nicer than what I measure with REW afterwards (even with smoothing in REW).
• The MA-A mic itself was packed so badly that I dropped it trying to unpack.

So it feels like I bought a Chinese speaker, not one engineered in Germany.

Separately from the speakers, I learned that I cannot use a pro USB audio-interface with multiple inputs for things like FaceTime or Google Meet on a Mac. I also bought a super-cardioid dynamic mic, and I thought I'll use it for videoconferencing, like cool podcasters on YouTube do. It turns out that FaceTime will sum up all the inputs (all 18 in the case of Scarlett 16i16) which will result, even if all other inputs are not connected to anything, in a very-very quiet sound of me as heard by the listeners in the call. Pro audio software (like DAW or the things podcasters use) lets you pick input channels, but FaceTime doesn't :/

What do you folks think about KEF LSX as PC speakers? I considered them several years ago and didn't buy due to similar complaints of users (i.e. similar "f**k you" attitude of the manufacturer). But at least they don't hiss like my LSR 305 (especially the left one).

Is there a thread on audiosciencereview or elsewhere detailing this on either kh120ii or kh150.
I can only find it under ‘reviews’ pages of the product.
And is there any discussion on what has been done to resolve this.

For example, the new kh310ii and kh350 may have the same problems.
Have they changed the manufacturing components for these newer products.
Can we expect similar issues?

 

[lordhumungous]

Is there a thread on audiosciencereview or elsewhere detailing this on either kh120ii or kh150.
I can only find it under ‘reviews’ pages of the product.
And is there any discussion on what has been done to resolve this.

For example, the new kh310ii and kh350 may have the same problems.
Have they changed the manufacturing components for these newer products.
Can we expect similar issues?

I have none of the problems Pritaudio has listed with the two monitors I have.

 

[Fongus]

I also have no issues with my KH120II monitors and KH750 DSP subwoofers. Production dates on these are from 2023.

 

[Miguelón]

For now, I plan to crank mine until the roof caves in, or they self destruct. I love my 8030C's, but that extra 5Hz really makes a perceivable impact. Then again, I could be fooling myself. We all know how this goes...

In the end, I've paid more for less in life, so I'm fairly happy with these. The next pair will likely be another pair of Gennie's though, because I'm an oddball who actually misses that egg shape, and the tone is so damned close that only the next size up, like the 8340 will do. Well, and they teamed up with Bjork, I guess.

Take a look at KEF LS Luxe, If you like eggs.

But they sound phenomenal, listened in Madrid in a showroom, they can fight egg-to-egg with Genelecs 8341

 

[Torin Krell]

FYI - this is the current circuit board of the KH150 (and apparently with just a few changes the KH120II as well):

 

[IamJF]

Is there a thread on audiosciencereview or elsewhere detailing this on either kh120ii or kh150.
I can only find it under ‘reviews’ pages of the product.
And is there any discussion on what has been done to resolve this.

For example, the new kh310ii and kh350 may have the same problems.
Have they changed the manufacturing components for these newer products.
Can we expect similar issues?

I don't know what this user did to his speakers - mine have 45°C on the cooling fins measured with my thermal imager. This will rise when pushed but running very hot with easy music levels would be strange, a fault or a lie.
Finding the speaker boring is a good thing ... don't by monitors for fun listening in your bedroom. Or at least use MA1 to tweak the curve. And no - also MA1 can't do magic in an untreated room.

KH310ii needs a 3-way electronic setup - so they will for sure have different electronics. We need to find out how reliable they are I guess but I would not give a sweat. At least in Europe service is very good, I had an KH120 repaired even out of it's warranty time (I bought a few for an industry project). But I also had my private KH120 die after 10-15 years of use ...

 

[Keith Flanker]

The KH120 II's biggest step over the MK1 is the DSP - the built-in EQ plus alignment delay make it much easier to integrate on a desk or with a sub. For desktop use the rear controls and lower hiss are the practical wins; the raw directivity stays in the same family as before.

 

[jhaider]

The KH120 II's biggest step over the MK1 is the DSP -

It also has significantly more headroom. IMO there wasn’t much headroom difference between 120A and 80 DSP. But 80 to 120 II is a substantial step up. By the measurements it’s up there with JBL’s mighty little 705.

 

[Pritaudio]

FYI - this is the current circuit board of the KH150 (and apparently with just a few changes the KH120II as well):View attachment 558648

Where did you get this information from. How do you know this is the latest one. Has it changed from the past. And anyway, it is just a photo. Nothing to indicate a revision. Seems to be 2021 from the photo.

 

[jean-benoit]

Where did you get this information from. How do you know this is the latest one. Has it changed from the past. And anyway, it is just a photo. Nothing to indicate a revision. Seems to be 2021 from the photo.

give it a rest.

you are spamming every neumann thread, asking people how reliable neumann is, that they have falty units etc...
just look into other brands.

 

[Karmacoma]

Where did you get this information from. How do you know this is the latest one. Has it changed from the past. And anyway, it is just a photo. Nothing to indicate a revision. Seems to be 2021 from the photo.

I think the picture is from the YT video of the Neumann R&D office visit, posted only a couple of days ago.

 

[IamJF]

The KH120 II's biggest step over the MK1 is the DSP - the built-in EQ plus alignment delay make it much easier to integrate on a desk or with a sub. For desktop use the rear controls and lower hiss are the practical wins; the raw directivity stays in the same family as before.

And the low mid driver! They did miracles with these, it's about on par with Purifi drivers.

The biggest sonical difference is of course low end but also midrange clarity and imaging. The first 2 are from the new driver, the 2nd from individual calibration and maybe phase optimisation.
But top octave sounded a liiitle nicer with my KH120 vs. new KH120ii. But that was a 10 year old speaker vs. factory new - not sure if the tweeter changes after a break in period (and yes, I had this clearly with a soft dome tweeter, but not all drivers react the same way, most are very stable. I received burn in recommendations for critical measurements from a tweeter manufacturer, low end drivers change their stiffness ... but it's easy to do, nothing to discuss about)

 

[Torin Krell]

I think the picture is from the YT video of the Neumann R&D office visit, posted only a couple of days ago.

Yes Karmacoma you have a sharp eye and are right on target. I took a screenshot of the video below right when they were best displaying the very latest circuit board for the KH150 (at 1:02::20) which is very similar to the circuit board used for the KH120II as well.

 

[Pritaudio]

And the low mid driver! They did miracles with these, it's about on par with Purifi drivers.

The biggest sonical difference is of course low end but also midrange clarity and imaging. The first 2 are from the new driver, the 2nd from individual calibration and maybe phase optimisation.
But top octave sounded a liiitle nicer with my KH120 vs. new KH120ii. But that was a 10 year old speaker vs. factory new - not sure if the tweeter changes after a break in period (and yes, I had this clearly with a soft dome tweeter, but not all drivers react the same way, most are very stable. I received burn in recommendations for critical measurements from a tweeter manufacturer, low end drivers change their stiffness ... but it's easy to do, nothing to discuss about)

Purifi 6 inch or other for comparison to kh120ii? I thought you were discussing the kh150 woofer 6.5 inch to the purifi 6 inch. The smaller purifi 4 inch drivers are relatively new, and significantly smaller.

I too am considering these instead of passive purifis. But am worried about faults developing and the on going courier cost to send it back for repair (should I need it). I am in uk, but would need to send them into Europe to get repaired.
Safer in terms of developing faults is using a suitable purifi 2 way passive with a hypex amp. Using my Wiim ultra for dsp.
But having it all in one package is more convenient with much more settings and customisation options for a decent price saving with warranty of course.

 

[Pritaudio]

it would cost me about £1000 more for pair of kh150 over kh120ii. The kh750 costs around £1400.
But having larger drivers may save me having to get a sub in a large listening space.
It would mean less distortion in the midrange and hopefully a cleaner sound to relax too over long listening periods.

 

[lordhumungous]

It would mean less distortion in the midrange and hopefully a cleaner sound to relax too over long listening periods.

LMAO !

 

[somebodyelse]

Yes Karmacoma you have a sharp eye and are right on target. I took a screenshot of the video below right when they were best displaying the very latest circuit board for the KH150 (at 1:02::20) which is very similar to the circuit board used for the KH120II as well.

Judging by the silkscreen in the bottom left corner they're using the same PCB for both, just populated differently. There's a fair chance they use the same PCB for versions with and without AES67 too, just leaving out the second network port and associated components for the version without.

 

[jkml]

Mine still produce this hum, on at the time. Happened twice since last post.

I did not mention it before, my speakers produce some kind of pop from time to time when on, like capacitor discharge or smth.

I might have some clue. Last time it happened I switched speakers on for a moment, and turn them off. And this pop occured with speaker turned off after few minutes. After powering on, this whine/hum was present.

It makes me think, might be some bad capacitor used by Neumann.

As I tested, almost all of kh120 II, are affected by this, I am not sure, what solution could be proposed by Neumann. Switching to new pair, wasn't helpfully like 4 times already. Waiting for this flaw to become permanent, neither...

Hi bitels, apologies for reviving an old post--what did you have the 120ii's plugged into when you were having this issue? And are you still having it? I've since moved to 150's but have been experiencing similar issues, and some new ones. I'm starting to really scrutinize everything else in my signal and power chain.