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Neumann KH 80 DSP Speaker Measurements: Take Two

BYRTT

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Yes and i now have the speakers but not the tablet, i mean Neumann if some of you are listening this really looks bad on an otherwise great product.
Unless zou have an ipad and want free room correction and eq
Because network management data is listed loud and clear its bit hard understand why you did buy it in first place if beside the back panel EQ settings you desperate need access to that 8-band parametric equalizer, suggest two alternative solutions where one is borrow a iPad from a friend or family to dial in whatever you after and those settings are store in memory so no problem network is disconnected, another solution is many use digital players and especial the ones on computers have tons of unlimited EQ verse the limit of eight time PEQ inside KH 80..
 

somebodyelse

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Because network management data is listed loud and clear its bit hard understand why you did buy it in first place if beside the back panel EQ settings you desperate need access to that 8-band parametric equalizer, suggest two alternative solutions where one is borrow a iPad from a friend or family to dial in whatever you after and those settings are store in memory so no problem network is disconnected, another solution is many use digital players and especial the ones on computers have tons of unlimited EQ verse the limit of eight time PEQ inside KH 80..
It depends when you bought them. They're upfront about the iPad requirement now, but you used to have to dig deeply to find it, and IIRC they were initially suggesting there would be both Android and iOS support. Now it's just an annoyingly arbitrary limitation, but back then it was borderline bait-and-switch. Meanwhile MOTU's AVB line can be controlled via a web browser, and has a published API for anyone who wants to make a different interface.
 

Lilith

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The evidence available strongly indicates which measurements are most likely to be incorrect.

Already in January @napilopez had posted the following comparison (Klippel means ASR measurement)
View attachment 68193
This already indicated that something could be wrong with the ASR measurement.

Then Amir took a second sample. The second measurement also shows the strange behaviour above 4-5kHz and below 100Hz.
Not sure if the measurement conditions were identical (fitting error, resolution,...).
The second one measured pretty much the same:
View attachment 68195

If we are generous, the deviation of the two samples is +-0.5dB in the range 60-11000Hz:
View attachment 68196
This means that the first sample also worked correctly.

Now we also have the new measurements from Neumann and the confirmation of the measurement by Klippel himself.
As already mentioned, the deviations of the ASR measurements in the upper frequency range were due to Amir making measurements with the mic protection cage. Only the low frequency behavior is still a mystery.

If that were all, I would agree with Amir and others in their doubts that the measurement by Neumann and Klippel could be a "golden sample" that was corrected in the bass range.
I have smoothed the frequency responses a little bit to be able to see the deviations better.
View attachment 68197
But in the meantime we have so many ASR measurements that differ significantly in the low bass frequency range from the manufacturer's specifications or measurements in audio magazines that it makes it very likely that the problem lies with the ASR NFS.
To confirm this, we actually do not need the Neumann sample anymore.

Apart from that, the ASR measurements up to 10-12kHz now correspond very well with other measurements.

Am I right that the 3th plot shows two units of KH80 measured by Amir with the same method? If so, a deviation of up to 5dB at > 15 kHz can occur? I ask, cause I bought the KH120 and also ""measured"" some deviation at this frequency range.
 

infinitesymphony

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Am I right that the 3th plot shows two units of KH80 measured by Amir with the same method? If so, a deviation of up to 5dB at > 15 kHz can occur? I ask, cause I bought the KH120 and also ""measured"" some deviation at this frequency range.
My recollection is that measurement devices tend to be less accurate in the >10 KHz range, so these deviations may not accurately reflect performance or unit-to-unit variation.
 

Lilith

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My recollection is that measurement devices tend to be less accurate in the >10 KHz range, so these deviations may not accurately reflect performance or unit-to-unit variation.
That true, but how can this affect relative differences? If I measure both speaker inaccurately but the same way the relative difference should be trustable imo.
 
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