Neumann KH 80 DSP Monitor Review

[MZKM]

Hmm. While it's certainly not a bad result, I hope they update their KH120 line with the DSP engine.

And isn't tied to just iPad; no desktop, Android, or iPhone app.

 

[Doodski]

Hmm. While it's certainly not a bad result, I hope they update their KH120 line with the DSP engine.

I wish they would put in a USB connection and make it windows compatible as a DSP controller.

 

[amirm]

Amir did not provide these.
@amirm?

Sorry I am confused. Which one are we talking about?

 

[MZKM]

Sorry I am confused. Which one are we talking about?

JBL 305P MKII

 

[digitalfrost]

I wish they would put in a USB connection and make it windows compatible as a DSP controller.

Oh yes absolutely. The iPad control is absolute bullshit. I understand a lot of professional music producers use Macs, but c'mon software these days is coming out for all kinds of different platforms, it can't be that hard. I can play MS-DOS games on my Android phone.

Give me KH 120 DSP and fitting subwoofers and I might consider buying a set (stereo subs ofc).

 

[thewas]

Well, that is the problem then. Calibrating those two measurements techniques and stitching them is always subject to some variation/inaccuracy. The Klippel system was designed precisely to fix these issues.

The class-1 room of the technical university they use is anechoic till 100 Hz while your measurement starts dropping already from 200 Hz.
Also Prof. Goertz (possibly the top acoustic expert in Germany) has measured there tons of studio monitors and even huge PA systems, I personally would rather not trust a newly released and freshly installed system and continue the contact to Klippel.

 

[Fluffy]

2. The JBL had a bit more "zing" and clarity as a result that was just lacking in KH 80. Focusing on the graphs, I noticed that the 305P has good bit of peaking (relatively speaking) in and around the frequencies that the KH 80 is weak in. Since I was doing my listening tests using Adobe Audition, I pulled up its parametric EQ and dialed up the 1.8 khz area by about 3 dB. That made a big difference and brought the response and signature much closer to that of JBL. The good directivity meant that there was no ill effect to such a boost.
...
I am super anxious to see what the Olive preference score says about KH 80 versus the JBL 305P. If it ranks the KH 80 higher then we have some work to do to rationalize my informal listening tests. If so, then I need to expand my listening tests to be more formal and in better environment than just my desk.

Maybe you got used to the sound of the JBL, after comparing them with everything else? I think we need measurements to overcome our biases, and this is a perfect example of you maybe being unconsciously biased towards the sound you are already familiar with.

It happens to me all the time that after a long listening session with my headphones, my speakers sound "off", and vice versa when I listen to headphones after a long time with my speakers. The brain needs to adjust.

Anyway, I would like to see how Genelec compares here.

 

[DDF]

Something concerning is going on between 500 and 900 Hz. It looks like it may be a resonance. It shows up in the isobars here as well:
https://www.soundandrecording.de/equipment/studiomonitore-neumann-kh-80-dsp-die-messdaten/

The 2 to 3 dB dip in response below 300Hz is a stand out anomaly from test results elsewhere. I haven't had chance to check, but its worth seeing if that shows up in any other speaker tests

 

[digitalfrost]

The class-1 room of the technical university they use is anechoic till 100 Hz while your measurement starts dropping already from 200 Hz.
Also Prof. Goertz (possibly the top acoustic expert in Germany) has measured there tons of studio monitors and even huge PA systems, I personally would rather not trust a newly released and freshly installed system and continue the contact to Klippel.

Dresden (Klippel) <-> Berlin (Goertz) is a 2hr drive on the autobahn. They could easily meet and compare results if they wanted to. Kinda wonder why that hasn't happened yet.

 

[thewas]

Dresden (Klippel) <-> Berlin (Goertz) is a 2hr drive on the autobahn. They could easily meet and compare results if they wanted to. Kinda wonder why that hasn't happened yet.

I know (also live in Germany), maybe because noone till now had raised the issue so there wasn't the need yet?

 

[JIW]

And why doesn't this match the manufacturer response which is dead flat?

The only significant difference seems to be the ~0.5 dB greater amplitude between 100 and 500 Hz. The minor peaks and dips are more or less the same just as the slight treble drop above about 10 kHz. If the manufacturer data where smoothed, that would be easier to see.

 

[digitalfrost]

I know (also live in Germany), maybe because noone till now had raised the issue so there wasn't the need yet?

Well maybe a customer of Klippel *ahem* should ask them.

 

[Sancus]

It might be worth re-measuring at a lower level just to confirm that the bass difference is just compression due to output limiting. But given the shape of the curve is identical to the manufacturer's, with a bit of a bump exactly at 60hz, it seems almost guaranteed the explanation is compression.

The level in this test specifically exceeds the manufacturer spec which is: 92.1 dB SPL Bass capability: Max. SPL in half space at 3% THD at 1m (averaged between 50 Hz and 100 Hz). No doubt the Klippel rig counts as "free space" where the bass would be 6db lower.

E: I should add, people might not realize just how small this speaker is since it's being compared to the JBL 305p in the same breath. It is 53% of the volume of the JBL, the output is limited because it's tiny.

 

[amirm]

The class-1 room of the technical university they use is anechoic till 100 Hz while your measurement starts dropping already from 200 Hz.
Also Prof. Goertz (possibly the top acoustic expert in Germany) has measured there tons of studio monitors and even huge PA systems, I personally would rather not trust a newly released and freshly installed system and continue the contact to Klippel.

The system is not "newly released." It was introduced back in 2015 or nearly five years ago. It is specifically designed to correct for errors in anechoic chambers. It is used by who is who in the industry already. Here are published results from Harman using this system:

Anyway, the difference is tiny and not material. If you don't trust it, that is cool. If you are asking me to run to Klippel, I won't do so since there is nothing actionable here. There is variation in anechoic chamber measurements as I have explained at length and quoted authorities on them.

I think you are abandoning caution in believing speaker measurements as flat as what you have reported. Such an animal does not exist and requires huge justification for any measurement that shows it such. Put your doubt there, not in my measurements.

 

[JIW]

It might be worth re-measuring at a lower level just to confirm that the bass difference is just compression due to output limiting. But given the shape of the curve is identical to the manufacturer's, with a bit of a bump exactly at 60hz, it seems almost guaranteed the explanation is compression.

The level in this test specifically exceeds the manufacturer spec which is: 92.1 dB SPL Bass capability: Max. SPL in half space at 3% THD at 1m (averaged between 50 Hz and 100 Hz). No doubt the Klippel rig counts as "free space" where the bass would be 6db lower.

E: I should add, people might not realize just how small this speaker is since it's being compared to the JBL 305p in the same breath. It is 53% of the volume of the JBL, the output is limited because it's tiny.

This is what Sound & Recording measures for 1 m distance in free field:

Edit: This is Neumann's own measurement at 1 m distance (not specified whether free field or half space), blue is 3% and green is 1% THD:

It matches the S&R measurement quite closely, so it might be free field as well.

 

[Palex]

It seems to me, JBL 305P MKII honest comparison with KRK Rokit 5 RP5G3)

 

[amirm]

JBL 305P MKII

Oh, I am sorry. I thought you had it already. Here it is:

 

[Sancus]

This is what Sound & Recording measures for 1 m distance in free field:

Sorry I don't know what this graph is saying. The dark line is SPL and the red line is THD below 250hz? If that's so, it seems consistent aside from the greater spike at 70hz. If the red line is supposed to be max SPL, no idea then.

 

[amirm]

It seems to me, JBL 305P MKII honest comparison with KRK Rokit 5 RP5G3)

Amazon says that is discontinued. is it?

 

[BYRTT]

...As noted, I calibrated the setting to 106 dB @ 0.3 meters which translates to 90 dB at 1 meter. Scream now if you don't want this to be the standard moving forward. ..

Sounds fine to me thanks but allow me scream for vertical scale in spinorama graphs where ANSI/CTA-2034-A document calls for a 50dB number, ASR review for JBL 305P MKii was very close to that 50dB number but from then on it ran wider, think 50dB acoustic scales as a standard is good to press design industri of transducers and speaker systems because stuff can really get bad looking there compared to 100dB or wider as seen from time to time.