Neumann KH 750 DSP Reviews - where are they?

[dasherzx]

Could be one of the ones I sent in after they repaired them hahaha

well, as long as it works im okay with it. 450 euros cheaper than buying new retail in my country, ill take it.

 

[ENEN]

Could be one of the ones I sent in after they repaired them hahaha

Imo Thomann might not repair faulty units before reselling them as B-Stock (Based on my personal experience)

My first Neumann KH750DSP (B-Stock) was also purchased from Thomann. Upon arrival, I found a written note in German, it was from the previous customer describing what issue he found out.


After setting up the subwoofer, I discovered the exact same problem mentioned on that note:

1. The Alignment Data would be lost after every reboot, and I had to turn on my computer and open the MA-1 software again (for transmitting the alignment data) for it to work properly.
2. When Standby Mode was enabled, the unit could not wake up after sleep unless the power switch was physically turned off and on.


Fortunately, Neumann’s North American support team is excellent, even though I had to send the unit back for the second time a few days ago, their responses were quick and professional, and they told me this time they’ll replace it with a new one

Because of Neumann's great customer service, I decided to give it another try: I bought a second B-Stock KH750DSP from Thomann this week. Hopefully this one will be trouble-free! (Also hope I won't receive the one you sent back as-is, lol)

* For reference, Thomann’s website states that B-Stock items “are fully functional”.

 

[Curvature]

Well, KH80/KH120 series uses capacitors that are known to bulge (to save a few $) and the KH120 driver sure looks like the Peerles SDS (https://www.soundimports.eu/en/peerless-by-tymphany-sds-p830656.html) which is a $30 part (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/neumann-kh120-disassembly-pictures.11975/) and https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/neumann-kh80dsp-teardown.24116/ for capacitors which are CapXcon.
The AI overview matches the forum sentiment:
View attachment 481272

After repairing a year old Krk 10-3 G4 due to bulging cap I am not too happy about this but fingers crossed they can last 10-15 years.

Neumann posted a very intelligent reply to this topic: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ann-kh80dsp-teardown.24116/page-3#post-820523

 

[Curvature]

Hey there, I'm currently considering buying a Neumann KH 750 DSP for my Small Studio, but I just don't seem be able to find any actual reviews with measurements eg, frequency curve, THD, Decay and so on. How is it that there is no review with measurements on such a respectable Brand's newest sub? Everyone says it's a really good sub, but no one measures it?

Maybe I'm missing something somewhere. Thanks for the help, cheers!

Attached is an excerpt from the S&R review by Anselm Goertz.

 

[arescec]

Imo Thomann might not repair faulty units before reselling them as B-Stock (Based on my personal experience)

My first Neumann KH750DSP (B-Stock) was also purchased from Thomann. Upon arrival, I found a written note in German, it was from the previous customer describing what issue he found out.


After setting up the subwoofer, I discovered the exact same problem mentioned on that note:

1. The Alignment Data would be lost after every reboot, and I had to turn on my computer and open the MA-1 software again (for transmitting the alignment data) for it to work properly.
2. When Standby Mode was enabled, the unit could not wake up after sleep unless the power switch was physically turned off and on.


Fortunately, Neumann’s North American support team is excellent, even though I had to send the unit back for the second time a few days ago, their responses were quick and professional, and they told me this time they’ll replace it with a new one

Because of Neumann's great customer service, I decided to give it another try: I bought a second B-Stock KH750DSP from Thomann this week. Hopefully this one will be trouble-free! (Also hope I won't receive the one you sent back as-is, lol)

* For reference, Thomann’s website states that B-Stock items “are fully functional”.

I actually have my KH80 glowing white-pink, not playing audio until I open MA-1 again. Had to swotch them to local. This seems to have started with the latest MA1 upgrade. I wonder about if Neumann sometimes

Neumann posted a very intelligent reply to this topic: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ann-kh80dsp-teardown.24116/page-3#post-820523

Lets hope this is correct and these do not have issues like other products using these.

 

[Curvature]

Lets hope this is correct and these do not have issues like other products using these.

If it was wrong, then I would imagine the cap manufacturer would go out of business, or there would be a lot more reports of failures.

I have Neumann speakers by the way. They seem fine.

 

[arescec]

If it was wrong, then I would imagine the cap manufacturer would go out of business, or there would be a lot more reports of failures.

I have Neumann speakers by the way. They seem fine.

CapXon was in the center of capacitor scandals of the 2000s. They have supposedly increased their quality since then and fixed the faulty electrolyte (there is a whole documentary on that on YT) but still it feels like a bit of a cost cutting measure considering these monitors and woofers are supposed to be best of the best - and priced accordingly. Over 1000 eur for 4 inch monitors is a lot of money and seeing these caps that had wodespread reports of failures as recent as 10 years ago is what worried me.

And if you think that I am a bit paranoid, I have just replaced one of those cheap capacitors that failed in Krk 10-3 G4 1 year old.

Also, power failures in KH120 are not u heard of and almost always caps: https://blog.fh-kaernten.at/ingmarsretro/2021/10/27/neumann-kh-120-mystery-noise-fix/?lang=en

Not sure what the point of defending a large company that saved 2 USD to give us bottom of the barrel capacitors from previously problematic company is.

 

[Curvature]

CapXon was in the center of capacitor scandals of the 2000s. They have supposedly increased their quality since then and fixed the faulty electrolyte (there is a whole documentary on that on YT) but still it feels like a bit of a cost cutting measure considering these monitors and woofers are supposed to be best of the best - and priced accordingly. Over 1000 eur for 4 inch monitors is a lot of money and seeing these caps that had wodespread reports of failures as recent as 10 years ago is what worried me.

And if you think that I am a bit paranoid, I have just replaced one of those cheap capacitors that failed in Krk 10-3 G4 1 year old.

Also, power failures in KH120 are not u heard of and almost always caps: https://blog.fh-kaernten.at/ingmarsretro/2021/10/27/neumann-kh-120-mystery-noise-fix/?lang=en

Not sure what the point of defending a large company that saved 2 USD to give us bottom of the barrel capacitors from previously problematic company is.

Nearly all professional monitors have cheap components on the board level as far as I know. It's engineering pragmatism mixed with profit motive. The worst audible consequence is the ever-present self-noise, especially bad for nearfield monitors. It becomes an easy way for boutique speaker companies to distinguish themselves, by using Hypex, Purifi or Pascal boards, for example.

I value the blog you shared, but I'd rather see some attempt at statistics. These caps are produced in the millions, are they not? Relying on reputation is not very scienceish.

 

[respice finem]

Speaking of noise, my Neumann KH 310A have minimal noise, compared to my JBL 308p Mk2.
Both are working fine for 3 years now, the JBL never switched off manually (auto standby).
But I'm not listening very loud most of the time.

 

[dasherzx]

Speaking of noise, my Neumann KH 310A have minimal noise, compared to my JBL 308p Mk2.
Both are working fine for 3 years now, the JBL never switched off manually (auto standby).
But I'm not listening very loud most of the time.

What are your levels and output gain set at? I find them very audible at the default 100 and 0 db settings at 0.5m. Gets worse if it’s an unbalanced source. Having the knob all the way down at -15db fixed the noise though.

 

[respice finem]

What are your levels and output gain set at? I find them very audible at the default 100 and 0 db settings at 0.5m. Gets worse if it’s an unbalanced source. Having the knob all the way down at -15db fixed the noise though.

I have both pairs on max gain, and no unbalanced source. I did not test the Neumann with lower, but on my JBL the noise is not audibly less with lower gain (resp. volume as it is labeled). It is the 308p Mk. 2 - maybe different to Mk. 1?

That said, the JBL noise is not annoying at 2 m distance, but it probably would be at <1.5 m.

 

[arescec]

Nearly all professional monitors have cheap components on the board level as far as I know. It's engineering pragmatism mixed with profit motive. The worst audible consequence is the ever-present self-noise, especially bad for nearfield monitors. It becomes an easy way for boutique speaker companies to distinguish themselves, by using Hypex, Purifi or Pascal boards, for example.

I value the blog you shared, but I'd rather see some attempt at statistics. These caps are produced in the millions, are they not? Relying on reputation is not very scienceish.

Fair point. Coming from diy background I am aware that these are not affecting sound, it is just durability I was worried about. Recapped my fair share of older amps and it is almost always the caps that go first. Was just hoping for a bit higher quality components for the price is all.

 

[J84]

More measurements here: https://www.soundandrecording.de/equipment/neumann-kh-750-dsp-subwoofer-mit-dsp-system-im-test/

Edit:
Plus 1st party measurements directly from Neumann
View attachment 472623 View attachment 472624 View attachment 472626 View attachment 472625

Hi does the K750 DSP have a XLR in and XLR out?

I was told in another forum it's better to get a sub that has a XLR in and XLR out for my plan setup.


I want to only use the wiim ultra as a streamer. I want to control the volume using a external DAC . The external DAC has a preamp.

I hear if the subs is connected to the sub out on the wiim ultra, i will have to use the wiim ultra to control the volume of the subs because the volume control of the subs is different from the setup?

if the subs are connected to the sub out on the wiim ultra will it affect the music? I want to bypass the DAC in the wiim ultra

Set up - streamer - wiim ultra, dac - E70 velvet, power amp - 2× topping B200, speaker - wharfedale linton,

subs - was supposed to be 2 × sb2000pro

someone said this - E70 can use XLR and RCA outputs at the same time. XLR to B200, RCA to sub.

Will doing the RCA to sub affect the music?

Or is it best I look for subs that has a XLR in and XLR out? It's seems only the sb4000 and above that have XLR in and XLR out.

 

[staticV3]

Hi does the K750 DSP have a XLR in and XLR out?

See here:

I hear if the subs is connected to the sub out on the wiim ultra, i will have to use the wiim ultra to control the volume of the subs because the volume control of the subs is different from the setup?

Correct.

someone said this - E70 can use XLR and RCA outputs at the same time. XLR to B200, RCA to sub.

Will doing the RCA to sub affect the music?

The KH 750 does not have RCA input.

If you want to bypass the WiiM Ultra DAC, then you can do WiiM->Coax->KH750->XLR->B200->Linton

 

[J84]

See here:
View attachment 503690


Correct.


The KH 750 does not have RCA input.

If you want to bypass the WiiM Ultra DAC, then you can do WiiM->Coax->KH750->XLR->B200->Linton

Thanks. Have found out I can use USB to bypass the wiim ultra DAC. So sb2000pro connected to the wiim sub out, wiim - E70- B200- linton

 

[Monowave Records]

We’re running a Neumann KH750 DSP together with the KH310 and MA-1.

Unfortunately, we can’t use the setup as intended. The converters/DAC in the KH750 are noticeably inferior to those in our Apogee Symphony Desktop. In direct comparison, the Symphony delivers significantly better clarity, depth, stereo imaging, high-frequency detail (especially hi-hats), and more natural reverb tails. With the Neumann’s internal DAC in the signal path, the presentation feels flatter and less engaging.

We genuinely like what the sub does in terms of low-end extension and integration, but we want to control it directly from our interface, without routing the signal through the KH750’s internal DAC/converters.

We’ve tried multiple configurations:

• Symphony Desktop via S/PDIF using a Toslink-to-Coax converter
• Adding a reclocking device (Douk Audio U2 Pro) between the computer and the unit

While the results were technically fine, none of these solutions matched the conversion quality of the Apogee.

The MA-1 room correction itself works well, but ideally we’d want to apply correction from our interface and feed the sub separately. For now, we’ve reverted to the Symphony Desktop with Sonarworks on the PC, which gives us an excellent overall result.

We also noticed that Neumann recently released a new generation of subwoofers. The apparent successor to the KH750 seems to be the KH 805 II, positioned roughly €1,000 higher and marketed as “DSP-controlled for superior sonics and unparalleled precision.” That may ultimately be the more appropriate solution.

I would prefer to wait for something like a Symphony Nova or an RME interface with a dedicated sub out and native Sonarworks integration, allowing us to retain the KH750 DSP while keeping the conversion stage entirely in the interface domain.

That said, we are a record label and need micro details from our outputs, we don't use this setup to watch tv.

 

[staticV3]

Unfortunately, we can’t use the setup as intended. The converters/DAC in the KH750 are noticeably inferior to those in our Apogee Symphony Desktop. In direct comparison, the Symphony delivers significantly better clarity, depth, stereo imaging, high-frequency detail (especially hi-hats), and more natural reverb tails.

Record the same track via both converters (DSP disabled for apples-to-apples), load both recordings into Pkane Deltawave and click Match.

Deltawave will match timing and loudness precisely, but otherwise leave the recordings untouched.

When it's done, go to Listen->Comparator and I can guarantee you will no longer be able to tell them apart, because if you don't know which converter is playing, then your head can no longer tell you which one you're supposed to perceive as superior.

Depth, stereo imaging, reverb tails etc. are not aspects that converters can physically even affect. It's 100% mind tricks.

 

[Monowave Records]

Record the same track via both converters (DSP disabled for apples-to-apples), load both recordings into Pkane Deltawave and click Match.

Deltawave will match timing and loudness precisely, but otherwise leave the recordings untouched.

When it's done, go to Listen->Comparator and I can guarantee you will no longer be able to tell them apart, because if you don't know which converter is playing, then your head can no longer tell you which one you're supposed to perceive as superior.

Depth, stereo imaging, reverb tails etc. are not aspects that converters can physically even affect. It's 100% mind tricks.

We’ve identified the issue. The problem turned out to be the StarQuad cables in our setup. Although they’re more expensive than the brand’s standard XLR cables, they introduce a slight high-frequency roll-off which apparently is common for StarQuad, although this is very subtle, it's something that becomes audible with our setup.

I'd suggest skipping a StarQuad cable for your setup in a professional environment unless you must run over a very long distance and have a lot of issues with interference.