Neumann KH 420 vs Genelec 8361 vs Genelec 8341 vs Quested H208 - Studio Monitor Upgrade suggestions, upgrading from Presonus Sceptre S8

[ABRAX]

My lovelies,

I have got the following offers:

- Neumann KH 420: 5800/pair
- Genelec 8361: 8500/pair
- Genelec 8341: 4100/pair
- Quested 208: 1600/pair (need to buy an amp for this, so please suggest one as well if you guys decide to go with this option)

I mostly produce and mix techno. Which monitors would you recommend. Need to listen to the low end especially the thump of the kick. Which monitors would you recommend, also please consider the price to performance ratio of these used ones

 

[tifune]

Not nearly enough info here. What's your room situation, how far do you sit, what's your actual budget, etc. Budget matters because a 8341+dual subs can *potentially* mop the floor vs a 8361. Listening distance matters because KH420 is monstrous and requires 1.5m minimum distance for proper summation . Room matters because, well, it's the room

If you're simply asking, what's the best value at those prices? Probably the 420's if your setup can properly accommodate them.

 

[ABRAX]

I'm in my living room now but would be building a new DIY studio. Right now I have around 1.5m from my Sceptre S8 monitors. So you'd say 8341 + subs are better than KH 420 and 8361? I was planning to go to somewhere warmer during winter so can always ship these 8341s which are much smaller so that's another advantage (portability).

 

[Frgirard]

I'm in my living room now but would be building a new DIY studio. Right now I have around 1.5m from my Sceptre S8 monitors. So you'd say 8341 + subs are better than KH 420 and 8361? I was planning to go to somewhere warmer during winter so can always ship these 8341s which are much smaller so that's another advantage (portability).

i have KH420 but i don't work and listen for you.
I know producers producing techno on the speaker of a laptop.
Make your opinion by yourself.

 

[ernestcarl]

I'm in my living room now but would be building a new DIY studio. Right now I have around 1.5m from my Sceptre S8 monitors. So you'd say 8341 + subs are better than KH 420 and 8361? I was planning to go to somewhere warmer during winter so can always ship these 8341s which are much smaller so that's another advantage (portability).

Well, if portability is important, then I think you have already answered your own question. You can pretty much extend the smaller monitors’ LF extension with a sub(s).

 

[abdo123]

Can't help but think if Dirac spacial room correction is around the corner that we should move away from bass managed setups and more into full-range capable speakers.

 

[FrantzM]

Don't know anything about the Quested speakers.. but.. I would jump at the KH-420 and be done.
It remains one of the best speakers reviewed here. Top 5, may be top 3 in ASR reviews...
And the price at which it is offered is very palatable... IMO.

Peace.

 

[Puddingbuks]

These quested speakers can be very old, 20 years or so, check if all speaker units are OK. Keep in mind you still have to have an amp and room correction to compare to the feature set of the genelecs.

It all depends on money, the 8341 is perfect but will have less spl and bass than the 8361.

 

[kipman725]

All of these speakers use dome tweeters my opinion is that these sound different to compresion drivers and horns and that you would be better served using speakers that are similar to what your music will be played back on. These differences become apparent at higher SPL so it to an extent depends on how loud you will be using the monitors. Genlec make a monitor with a compresion driver that might be worth considering, or your current S8 with subs would also work.

 

[NiagaraPete]

I would say 8341 + subs. GLM will accommodate room.

 

[ernestcarl]

All of these speakers use dome tweeters my opinion is that these sound different to compresion drivers and horns and that you would be better served using speakers that are similar to what your music will be played back on. These differences become apparent at higher SPL so it to an extent depends on how loud you will be using the monitors. Genlec make a monitor with a compresion driver that might be worth considering, or your current S8 with subs would also work.

In that case, I would also consider the JBL 705/708 as well.

 

[ABRAX]

No JBL. I wanted to add Genelec 1237 also in the list which goes for 6800 for an used pair.

 

[pierre]

I have the 2 Genelecs. I would go for 2x8341+subs. Why? You will get a better frequency response overall if you can move the subs around. There is no way you can compensate for the room modes with only 2 speakers. Depending on your room, a 7360 may be enough, a 7370 if not. I would prefer 2x7360 to help with room modes than 1 bigger subwoofer. You can also move the 8341 fairly easily, add a dedicated box to carry them over (Thomann is selling it I think).

If you are at more than 2m or 2.5m then 8361 or kh420 are better and you can skip the sub to start. I still prefer the 8361 with a sub at high volume with alot of bass which should be your case.

You have only good choices (remove the Quested it is not on par with the others even if new). If you go with the Quested because of price, I think you need a 4 channels amp to try to optimise the freq. A crown or similar will do it well with a dsp inside of course. There are still many studios with Quested they cannot be that bad.

 

[ABRAX]

I have the 2 genelecs. I would go for 2x8341+subs. Why? you will get a better frequency response overall if you can move the subs around. There is no way you can compensate for the room with only 2 speakers. Depending on your room, 7360 may be enough, 7370 if not. I would prefer 2 7360 to help with room modes than 1 bigger subs. You can also move the 8341 fairly easily, add a dedicated box to carry them over (Thomann is selling it I think).

If you are at more than 2m or 2.5m then 8361 or kh420 are better and you can skip the sub to start. I still prefer the 8361 with a sub at high volume with alot of bass which should be your case.

You have only good choices (remove the Quested it is not on par with the others even if new). If you go with the quested because of price, I think you need a 4 channels amp to try to optimise the freq. A crown or similar will do it well with a dsp inside of course. There are still many studios with Quested they cannot be that bad.

Thank you, Pierre. What about Genelec 1237? Can get those for 6800 or so.

 

[NiagaraPete]

Thank you, Pierre. What about Genelec 1237? Can get those for 6800 or so.

That's a hell of a good price. They are 6650 each in Canada plus you need to buy GLM. I think I'd be an owner.

 

[ABRAX]

That's a hell of a good price. They are 6650 each in Canada plus you need to buy GLM. I think I'd be an owner.

It includes the GLM kit. So is it better than Neumann KH 420 and 8361?

 

[pierre]

It includes the GLM kit. So is it better than Neumann KH 420 and 8361?

No it’s not better but different. They are designed to be soffit mounted, they are slightly less good than the ones but they have usually more output. I don’t know the 1237 but I have worked with the larger one 1238 and they can wake up the dead. For mixing I would go for the ones, for mastering and/or long distance listening like 4m or more they can be a good answer. They are definitely not transportable. You will still need a sub and a large one to match the output of the 1237.

If your room is not great S360 is a possible option.

Except if you think you will have a large studio, 8341 are a safe choice.

 

[ABRAX]

No it’s not better but different. They are designed to be soffit mounted, they are slightly less good than the ones but they have usually more output. I don’t know the 1237 but I have worked with the larger one 1238 and they can wake up the dead. For mixing I would go for the ones, for mastering and/or long distance listening like 4m or more they can be a good answer. They are definitely not transportable. You will still need a sub and a large one to match the output of the 1237.

If your room is not great S360 is a possible option.

Except if you think you will have a large studio, 8341 are a safe choice.

Thanks Pierre. Genelec 1237 on paper seems to be more powerful than the KH 420, also comes w/ a GLM kit. So that's an added advantage to calibrate w/o having to buy subs. But would you say 8341 is still more accurate and extends a bit more in the low end? I just couldn't understand how would such a small speaker reproduce such lows especially when often I run in problems w/ making sure kick is punching through the mix etc.

 

[pierre]

Thanks Pierre. Genelec 1237 on paper seems to be more powerful than the KH 420, also comes w/ a GLM kit. So that's an added advantage to calibrate w/o having to buy subs. But would you say 8341 is still more accurate and extends a bit more in the low end? I just couldn't understand how would such a small speaker reproduce such lows especially when often I run in problems w/ making sure kick is punching through the mix etc.

if you take the 8341 you need 1 or 2 subs. 1x 7370 or 2x7360 depending on your room. 1237 will give you a lot of output but not flat bass by itself. Esp. for techno you want deep bass, so sub is mandatory.

1237 and kh420 are similar, I prefer the Neumann but that’s just my opinion.

It all depends on your room: size, walls and acoustic treatments. If you buy the best speakers in the world, you need a good room to let them shine. In a living room, the difference between a 8340 and a 8341 will be mostly lost; a pair of 1237 is likely to have high peaks/dips in the low and so on.

So back to the basics:
- do you want the LR to be movable? is that a hard requirement?
- what is the listening distance and room volume?
- do you have a large desk/console?
- if acoustics treatment is average and you want to optimise for a 1 person position, then a speaker that doesn’t spread the room is better (they will excite less room modes and you will have less reflections).

do you have a picture of your current room and a plan for the future one? do you have measurements in room of the spectre ? they are already good speakers.

 

[ABRAX]

if you take the 8341 you need 1 or 2 subs. 1x 7370 or 2x7360 depending on your room. 1237 will give you a lot of output but not flat bass by itself. Esp. for techno you want deep bass, so sub is mandatory.

1237 and kh420 are similar, I prefer the Neumann but that’s just my opinion.

It all depends on your room: size, walls and acoustic treatments. If you buy the best speakers in the world, you need a good room to let them shine. In a living room, the difference between a 8340 and a 8341 will be mostly lost; a pair of 1237 is likely to have high peaks/dips in the low and so on.

So back to the basics:
- do you want the LR to be movable? is that a hard requirement?
- what is the listening distance and room volume?
- do you have a large desk/console?
- if acoustics treatment is average and you want to optimise for a 1 person position, then a speaker that doesn’t spread the room is better (they will excite less room modes and you will have less reflections).

do you have a picture of your current room and a plan for the future one? do you have measurements in room of the spectre ? they are already good speakers.

Answers:

- do you want the LR to be movable? is that a hard requirement?
Can be fixed, no issues.Moveable is not must.

- what is the listening distance and room volume?
1.5/1.8 m now but I'm building a new studio

- do you have a large desk/console?
Have a large desk with length but not so much in depth

- if acoustics treatment is average and you want to optimise for a 1 person position, then a speaker that doesn’t spread the room is better (they will excite less room modes and you will have less reflections)

From this perspective looks like 8341+subs is the way to go.

Just used your awesome tool to compare the low end of Neumann KH 420 and Genelec 8361, looks like Neumann extends more. So could get away w/o subs.
8361 is just too expensive at 8500 compared to Neumann Kh 420 at 5800. I think I have to choose between Neumann KH 420 vs 8341 (4100) + subs.

I'm very used to the coaxial experience and the sound of Sceptre S8 and it helps me to mix better than traditional designs, I had very bad experience on Adam A7x. Since the Genelec are coaxials, think I'd get used to them quicker. This is one factor favoring the coaxials.

Thank you once again for your awesome analytical input, Pierre.