Neumann KH 310A Review (Powered Monitor)

[Speaker-Inquisitor]

What you see here is the difference between the electric crossover and the acoustic crossover (which is the sum of electric crossover and the drivers behavior)
To get a matching electric and acoustic crossover it is required to equalize the driver flat a whole octave above the crossover frequency. In the Case of the LSR 308 that would mean equalise the tweeter to be flat till 900hz, then apply LR4@1800hz. The result would be a perfect acoustic LR4@1800hz filter.

 

[Robbo99999]

Have little update for yours if interested based on Amir's analyze, its because on JBL Pro website they list crossover as 4th order LR @1800Hz but that doesn't stem for Amir's sample as seen below in upper row, Amir's nearfield sweep miss 1800Hz target curve and lobe at 1810Hz dont look like a textbook in phase strait forward pointing LR lobe, in second row target and lobe looks better and also the two space inteference such outs one get in CAD software when tilting Amir's spindata relative to microphone, Amir's sample of 305P MKII looks to crossover @1800Hz but not 308P MKII and makes sense why directivity index handover for a relative big diameter 8 incher looks much better for 308P MKII verse T8V that have a higher crossover region, data should be possible to confirm youself running a nearfield sweep ..

View attachment 95812

What you see here is the difference between the electric crossover and the acoustic crossover (which is the sum of electric crossover and the drivers behavior)
To get a matching electric and acoustic crossover it is required to equalize the driver flat a whole octave above the crossover frequency. In the Case of the LSR 308 that would mean equalise the tweeter to be flat till 900hz, then apply LR4@1800hz. The result would be a perfect acoustic LR4@1800hz filter.

You could put this over in the 308p pages if you like (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/jbl-308p-mkii-studio-monitor-review.17338/). I don't know quite enough about this to work out how you worked it all out, but it's interesting! (I understand your graphs BYRRT, so I can see the comparisons you've drawn overlaying Amir's tweeter on a standard 4th order LR@1800Hz)

 

[BYRTT]

What you see here is the difference between the electric crossover and the acoustic crossover (which is the sum of electric crossover and the drivers behavior)
To get a matching electric and acoustic crossover it is required to equalize the driver flat a whole octave above the crossover frequency. In the Case of the LSR 308 that would mean equalise the tweeter to be flat till 900hz, then apply LR4@1800hz. The result would be a perfect acoustic LR4@1800hz filter.

Right you get pretty close that way but as far i know when speaker designers talk crossover region they talk acoustic slope not electric, also because the electric curve isnt really a pure 4th order LR @1800Hz but a filter string of EQ filter plus pure 4th order LR @1800Hz and the 2nd order acoustic roll off for tweeter, and in marketing material specifications should really be as they written so if they write 4th order LR @1800Hz there it should not be something else mysterious that nobody can figure out, should manufacture for competitor reasons want to keep the precise data a little bit for himself slope data could for example be listed with a number of orders or without and a whatever octave region.

 

[GimeDsp]

There is not much I enjoy more to listen to than a properly designed sealed 3-way speaker!
I wonder why THX use to spec "sealed" then they switched now to allow more?

 

[grandsons]

Take a look at S&R's measurements.

Thank you. Got it.

 

[ernestcarl]

-I have never hit the limiter even with bass-heavy music. Does it exist?

I’d be more concerned with actually physically hitting the mid dome driver by accident. The protective grills are quite expensive...

 

[yourmando]

You can add two subwoofers, thanks,to igor_xxxx from pink fish media forum:

https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/neumann-kh-310-a-and-dual-subwoofers.228444/


View attachment 94862

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And the latest iteration from igor_xxxx (With grilles, custom isolation between the monitors, subwoofers and floor in order to decrease some excessive energy),
Thanks again igor.

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Interesting that he seems to have switched from tweeters on the outside to tweeters on the inside for his listening setup.

One nice little detail is those grooves on the woofer surround. This was not on the O300 but added to the KH 310 to address radial standing waves on the surround, resulting in lower IMD. See 0:45 into the video clip:

Reducing IMD is also why Purifi has such an unusual surround design on their new woofers.

 

[Χ Ξ Σ]

Finally got my KH310. I am comparing the KH310+sub against the KH120+sub to see if the upgrade is worth it. I have two subwoofers, and I connected one sub to each pair to give them equal low frequency extensions. This should give them a fair group for comparing sound quality. The result has been interesting so far.

 

[yourmando]

Finally got my KH310. I am comparing the KH310+sub against the KH120+sub to see if the upgrade is worth it. I have two subwoofers, and I connected one sub to each pair to give them equal low frequency extensions. This should give them a fair group for comparing sound quality. The result has been interesting so far. View attachment 97047

Let us know how it goes! I should be able to do the same next week.

Edit: any quick impressions???

 

[Pepperjack]

Was a little curious how the positioning and distance might affect the outcome. Not sure how far you are sitting but the manual calls for minimums of the same distance at .75m but it seems from the photo like the kh310 would probably be angled to pass in front of the listener while being A bit closer together and was wondering how significant those differences may be in such seemingly near field application?

Finally got my KH310. I am comparing the KH310+sub against the KH120+sub to see if the upgrade is worth it. I have two subwoofers, and I connected one sub to each pair to give them equal low frequency extensions. This should give them a fair group for comparing sound quality. The result has been interesting so far. View attachment 97047

 

[Χ Ξ Σ]

Was a little curious how the positioning and distance might affect the outcome. Not sure how far you are sitting but the manual calls for minimums of the same distance at .75m but it seems from the photo like the kh310 would probably be angled to pass in front of the listener while being A bit closer together and was wondering how significant those differences may be in such seemingly near field application?

My listening position is more than 1m away for all these speakers, the outer KH120 was toe'd in a little more than the inner KH310 so that they all point to my ears.
I have concerned about the difference in speaker placement will give it away, but it has not been a problem thus far. Identifying which pair of speakers is playing when only one instrument or one voice is playing is harder than I thought. I only listen to solo piano music for this test because when only one instrument is playing, the image from either pair of speakers is dead center and there isn't much width difference. Music with more than one instrument paying will give away the spatial difference between these two speakers, thus revealing which pair is playing. Also solo piano music is my main dissatisfaction with the KH120 so it all worked out.

 

[Pearljam5000]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.soundonsound.com/reviews/neumann-kh420?amp
Interesting comparison with K310, he's basically saying he couldn't tell them apart most of the time

 

[Pjetrof]

I think the vast majority of owners use it as a studio monitor.

Could it be used at home and how will it sound ?

 

[thewas]

Finally got my KH310. I am comparing the KH310+sub against the KH120+sub to see if the upgrade is worth it. I have two subwoofers, and I connected one sub to each pair to give them equal low frequency extensions. This should give them a fair group for comparing sound quality. The result has been interesting so far.

View attachment 97055

Please leave few centimeters/inches betweet both as otherwise you extend their baffles which means their internal baffle step correction doesn't work as it should and you get too much upper bass / lower mids unless you EQ them.
Music with more than one tone/instruments, especially piano at high SPLs should be relatively easily revealing the cleanness of the KH310 3-way design with a superb mid driver (much lower IMD).

 

[yourmando]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.soundonsound.com/reviews/neumann-kh420?amp
Interesting comparison with K310, he's basically saying he couldn't tell them apart most of the time

Thanks for Sharing.

Makes sense, with the KH 420 having identical tweeter and midrange drivers as the KH 310, and designed to match dispersion width with the rest of the family. Bass is always a little harder to distinguish, as the ear is less sensitive there—the reviewer described the 420 as more “weight”.

 

[thewas]

Thanks for Sharing.

Makes sense, with the KH 410 having identical tweeter and midrange drivers as the KH 310, and designed to match dispersion width with the rest of the family. Bass is always a little harder to distinguish, as the ear is less sensitive there—the reviewer described the 410 as more “weight”.

KH 420, the O 410 was its predecessor with other drivers.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Could it be used at home and how will it sound ?

Yes, of course Should sound very good. Exactly as the measurements suggest: a neutral speaker with low distortion and good bass extension.

 

[yourmando]

Could it be used at home and how will it sound ?

It can definitely be used at home.

Though it’s designed for nearfield use, the measurements and listening impressions show it can work well at home at normal home distances.

How it sounds in home is predicted by the “Estimated In-room Response” chart in Amir’s review (in near-field, would sound more like the “listening window” chart.) So stellar in both cases, as long as you use room correction in the bass area (for any speaker) as your room takes over how it sounds in that range.

As Amir said, it gets very load and easily usable up to maybe 9ft, and you can extend that further out with subwoofers. Bass extends down to 34hz and is quite clean, which is amazing for this compact size.

Finally, if you have a surround setup, you can get almost identical speakers for the LCR vs having tall towers as mains and a long horizontal format as a center with a different dispersion pattern.

Dispersion is well controlled and narrower than something like Revel towers. Some people like wider dispersion. Also, some like pretty speakers in home vs a studio monitor look.

 

[yourmando]

KH 420, the O 410 was its predecessor with other drivers.

Oops, typo—numbers too close on my phone keypad. Edited! There is no KH 410—I meant KH 420 as discussed in the review.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Finally got my KH310. I am comparing the KH310+sub against the KH120+sub to see if the upgrade is worth it. I have two subwoofers, and I connected one sub to each pair to give them equal low frequency extensions. This should give them a fair group for comparing sound quality. The result has been interesting so far.

View attachment 97055

Also be sure to swap the KH310 to the outside at some point so that you'r not always comparing the same pair of speakers placed close together and the same pair placed further apart.