Neumann KH 310A Review (Powered Monitor)

[dfuller]

Why add subs and not go straight to KH420 instead?

Few reasons:

1. A pair of decent subs + KH310s (even if you factor in a DSP crossover box) is cheaper by a fairly large margin than KH420s
2. KH420s are big speakers. They're deeper than KH310s are wide and ballpark 3 times the cabinet volume.
3. KH420s are quite heavy (roughly 35kg) and need much more robust stands than the KH310s (which are only about 13kg).
4. Sometimes it can be acoustically advantageous to place subs in a different spot in the room from mains.

 

[dasherzx]

I'm thinking of ordering a pair of these! Is it worth to get a 750 sub for use in a small bedroom.
750 I can have dsp via the MA1.
SVS sb1000 pro I can save half my money...decisions decisions

 

[AnalogSteph]

Define "small bedroom" in terms of size and listening distance.

Also, isn't a pair of these a tad overdressed for a bedroom? (I used to have an old set of 2.1 computer speakers in there, connected to an even older FM tuner. Headphone-only zone now.) Not to mention rather impractical? Almost 50 W total at idle, no central power switch unless you splurge on a switched power strip, no Bluetooth (which has proven surprisingly useful with my kitchen-fi here), ... How much are you realistically going to use them?

In terms of monitors for a bedroom, I might be looking at some ADAM T7Vs (hiss be damned), or one of their larger / posher models (T8V, A7V etc.)... up to the A8H if you absolutely insist on having some 3-way monitors in there. No sub should be required for those.

 

[dagfinn]

There is little or no purpose using a sub if a monitor already accurately reproduces sources above 40 Hz. There is very little content below this.

This is just very, very wrong.

 

[Ellebob]

While a sub will play lower frequencies that most speakers can't, that is not the reason to use a sub. Even if speakers are full range a sub should be used when possible. The reason is acoustics like real estate is all about location, location, location. In home sized rooms the best location for mids/highs is rarely the same location as bass. Using a sub allows proper placement of bass and mid/highs. And if you want similar bass in multiple seats two or more subs are needed.

It is also the reason the crossover should not be set to the speaker's low frequency limit unless for small speakers where a higher crossover might be required to integrate. A crossover should be set by room acoustics.

 

[teashea]

While a sub will play lower frequencies that most speakers can't, that is not the reason to use a sub. Even if speakers are full range a sub should be used when possible. The reason is acoustics like real estate is all about location, location, location. In home sized rooms the best location for mids/highs is rarely the same location as bass. Using a sub allows proper placement of bass and mid/highs. And if you want similar bass in multiple seats two or more subs are needed.

It is also the reason the crossover should not be set to the speaker's low frequency limit unless for small speakers where a higher crossover might be required to integrate. A crossover should be set by room acoustics.

Not true with the lowest octave if the monitors measure flat at the LP down to 40 Hz and one does not need the lowest octave. Subs are almost always incorrectly used.

 

[LTig]

Not true with the lowest octave if the monitors measure flat at the LP down to 40 Hz

... which in real life is almost never the case ...

and one does not need the lowest octave.

If one has not experienced it one doesn't know what one misses. And with a sub taking over at 80 Hz one gets less IMD from the woofer, which should not be dismissed easily.

Subs are almost always incorrectly used.

REW can fix this. I would never get rid of my subs in both systems, sound quality made a big step forward in both of them.

 

[teashea]

... which in real life is almost never the case ...

If one has not experienced it one doesn't know what one misses. And with a sub taking over at 80 Hz one gets less IMD from the woofer, which should not be dismissed easily.

REW can fix this. I would never get rid of my subs in both systems, sound quality made a big step forward in both of them.

In the past maybe, but low distortion with Neuman KH150's make this quite unnecessary. Times change.

Measurements count - not subjective impressions.

 

[LTig]

In the past maybe, but low distortion with Neuman KH150's make this quite unnecessary.

Regarding HD: not if you play louder, which you can with a sub.

Times change.

Physics does not. IMD occurs when a woofer plays high tones and very low tones at the same time. Reducing the excursion of the woofer by using a sub reduces IMD, always.

Measurements count - not subjective impressions.

Did I mention REW?

 

[boxerfan88]

Sounds like tunnel vision (hearing). Cannot see (hear) beyond own use-case.

Even Neumann offers subs in their portfolio.

Having sub(s) is almost always better than not having sub. Integrating 3rd party subs manually isn’t that difficult, if lazy one can easily just buy Neumann subs and then plug and play.

With subs, the full range sound quality remains clean & clear for a longer range as one jacks up the volume. As one poster earlier mentioned, cannot beat physics.

 

[dfuller]

The only time you may not strictly speaking need subs is if your speakers really get down below 40hz anechoically with enough volume for your needed purposes.

The KH310 does not do this (sub-40hz with volume).

It has seriously high IMD across the woofer's range at higher levels. It's fine without subs up to ~1.5m at nominal listening levels with most music, but further than that or with very bass heavy music and it falls right apart - the low mids become strained.

No Neumann smaller than the KH420 has meaningful high output capability.

 

[dasherzx]

Define "small bedroom" in terms of size and listening distance.

Also, isn't a pair of these a tad overdressed for a bedroom? (I used to have an old set of 2.1 computer speakers in there, connected to an even older FM tuner. Headphone-only zone now.) Not to mention rather impractical? Almost 50 W total at idle, no central power switch unless you splurge on a switched power strip, no Bluetooth (which has proven surprisingly useful with my kitchen-fi here), ... How much are you realistically going to use them?

In terms of monitors for a bedroom, I might be looking at some ADAM T7Vs (hiss be damned), or one of their larger / posher models (T8V, A7V etc.)... up to the A8H if you absolutely insist on having some 3-way monitors in there. No sub should be required for those.

room's about 10' x 10'. yeah, probably overdressed. but I've found adding a sub even for my kh150s definitely has benefits (mostly just making the floor vibrate harder but eh why not).. and all it took was a 500$ 15 inch sub. but with the neumann 310s not having dsp, it'll be harder to calibrate them. i think ill go with an even cheaper sub this time round.

 

[teashea]

The only time you may not strictly speaking need subs is if your speakers really get down below 40hz anechoically with enough volume for your needed purposes.

The KH310 does not do this (sub-40hz with volume).

It has seriously high IMD across the woofer's range at higher levels. It's fine without subs up to ~1.5m at nominal listening levels with most music, but further than that or with very bass heavy music and it falls right apart - the low mids become strained.

No Neumann smaller than the KH420 has meaningful high output capability.

It is important to understand that Neumann monitors are designed / optimized for nearfield use.

 

[teashea]

room's about 10' x 10'. yeah, probably overdressed. but I've found adding a sub even for my kh150s definitely has benefits (mostly just making the floor vibrate harder but eh why not).. and all it took was a 500$ 15 inch sub. but with the neumann 310s not having dsp, it'll be harder to calibrate them. i think ill go with an even cheaper sub this time round.

For true reproduction, one wants bass that is correct - not exaggerated. For that, one can purchase an old pair of Cerwin Vegas.

 

[dagfinn]

For true reproduction, one wants bass that is correct - not exaggerated. For that, one can purchase an old pair of Cerwin Vegas.

How do you monitor and balance 5 string bass? Organ? Piano? Drums? Not to mention electronic sounds... You're saying we don't need to hear the lowest parts of the music by people like J.S. Bach and Jaco Pastorius, and here I have to protest. Having proper bass is important, the KH310 is not a full range speaker, and will not be "correct" at lower frequencies. Insufficient in a studio and for listening to many kinds of music even.

 

[teashea]

How do you monitor and balance 5 string bass? Organ? Piano? Drums? Not to mention electronic sounds... You're saying we don't need to hear the lowest parts of the music by people like J.S. Bach and Jaco Pastorius, and here I have to protest. Having proper bass is important, the KH310 is not a full range speaker, and will not be "correct" at lower frequencies. Insufficient in a studio and for listening to many kinds of music even.

Study the measurements. The KH310 and KH150 have flat frequency response down into the upper 30's. There is very little music lower than that. Check out what the lowest frequencies are for various instruments ---- and what musicians actually play ---- and what recordings actually have in that regard.

Very few recordings have any content below 40 Hz.

How much classical pipe organ music do you listen to?

There is s little EDM that has bass lower than 40 Hz. How often do you listen to that?

No pop songs, no jazz, no country has anything that low. The producers know that. Even though a bass guitar and piano can go down that low with a few of their notes, they never do - never.

Neumann monitors are designed to reproduce the source accurately so that the sound engineer / producer can tell what the song actually sounds like. The Neumann monitors are not designed to make the source sound pretty, or sweet .... etc. They are designed to tell the truth.

 

[dfuller]

Very few recordings have any content below 40 Hz.

That is honestly untrue. Anything with extended range guitars, synth bass, organ often does.

 

[teashea]

That is honestly untrue. Anything with extended range guitars, synth bass, organ often does.

No they don't. Some instruments have the ability to go that low but they are not actually used at those frequencies in recordings. It is easy to measure.

 

[Honken]

It is, there's even a thread on the subject here. Most of the tracks that dig below 40Hz are electronic indeed, but it is hardly 'just EDM'.

BASS!

Post some nice examples of tracks that can challenge your system/headphones with lower spectrum notes. Try to include not only tracks from a "reference test suite" category but also those that are fun to listen (or you like personally). Although it's natural to expect some electronic music...

www.audiosciencereview.com

As for the capabilities of the 310, it's quite weak below 100Hz:

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I still really like mine, but I do cross mine with subwoofers.

 

[unpluggged]

Neumann monitors are designed to reproduce the source accurately so that the sound engineer / producer can tell what the song actually sounds like. The Neumann monitors are not designed to make the source sound pretty, or sweet .... etc. They are designed to tell the truth.

Why then does Neumann make studio subwoofers that are designed for nearfield usage (as you like to emphasize) and go down to 16 Hz anechoic?