Neumann KH 310A Review (Powered Monitor)

[Chr1]

Indeed. Another thing I am happy to forgo is Class D amplification as it seems it can be hard and/or expensive to fix. At least with the current model you know that it's probably not too difficult to fix any amplification issues and it has years of solid proven reliability.
Plus no real benefits re the woofer if you use subs.

 

[levimax]

Indeed. Another thing I am happy to forgo is Class D amplification as it seems it can be hard to fix. At least with the current model you know that it's probably not too difficult to fix any amplification issues and it has solid proven reliability.
Plus no real benefits re the woofer if you use subs.

I am not sure why people are clamoring for a "better 8" woofer" as I am not sure there is anything wrong with the current one. Using a relatively small sealed enclosure and an 8" woofer is going to have some trade offs like higher LF distortion for less group delay. One solution is subs, another is a larger ported enclosure, both of which have their own set of trade offs. I think the reason the KH 310 has not been updated is that it is hard to come up with a better performing set of compromises.

 

[Chr1]

I agree. Hence why I won't be upgrading.

I guess that it's just a case of ongoing product development. Incremental improvement etc.

Reckon they'll likely keep the current model as part of the their product line

I'd bet the new model won't be a big enough improvement to justify the price for me.

(Unless it defies the laws of physics and does a clean 150db!)

 

[teashea]

I recently bought some KH310's and one of the appeals to me was no DSP. Since I planned on using them with multiple subs I have learned the hard way that "built in DSP" in subs can often make integration much more difficult as you have limited control over what the DSP does and large delays, pre-ringing, and group delay caused by the DSP can be a nightmare. I don't see a reason to make things even more difficult by adding the same issues to the mains. For me DSP is much better applied with a PC with plenty of processing power and software I have control over and a high performance multi-channel interface rather than trying to work around issues caused by "built in" DSP which is limited by low processing power and hard wired choices that don't fi

t my application.

Indeed. Another thing I am happy to forgo is Class D amplification as it seems it can be hard and/or expensive to fix. At least with the current model you know that it's probably not too difficult to fix any amplification issues and it has years of solid proven reliability.
Plus no real benefits re the woofer if you use subs.

There is little or no purpose using a sub if a monitor already accurately reproduces sources above 40 Hz. There is very little content below this.

Neumann says that the amps in its new monitors are similar to class D. They do an excellent job of powering the KH150's and KH120 II's.

The most important factor in the design of the bass for KH150's and KH120 II's is the use of DSP.

 

[teashea]

I agree. Hence why I won't be upgrading.

I guess that it's just a case of ongoing product development. Incremental improvement etc.

Reckon they'll likely keep the current model as part of the their product line

I'd bet the new model won't be a big enough improvement to justify the price for me.

(Unless it defies the laws of physics and does a clean 150db!)

We do not know what the new 310's will be like. We have to wait and see. Speculation is just that - speculation.

 

[Chr1]

There is little or no purpose using a sub if a monitor already accurately reproduces sources above 40 Hz. There is very little content below this.

I disagree. I mainly listen to electronic music pretty loud. Hence subs are a must.

They are also my L + R speakers for multichannel via an AVR... Again subs needed.

I am not just using them as nearfield monitors.

 

[teashea]

I disagree. I mainly listen to electronic music pretty loud. Hence subs are a must.

I am not using them as nearfield monitors.

Loud does not mean low bass.

They are designed as nearfield monitors.

The KH 310's do not use DSP. So why does DSP have anything to do with integrating them with subs?

 

[Chr1]

Electronic music means low bass.

They are designed to be for near and midfield.
(Reckon you can definitely extend that with subs too.)

DSP is best for sub integration. Tho I don't really understand the advantage of having it built into the speakers myself.

 

[levimax]

The KH 310's do not use DSP. So why does DSP have anything to do with integrating them with subs?

My point was that not having DSP makes them easier to integrate with subs. Sub integration, which is hard enough under the best of circumstances becomes more difficult if you are fighting against built in DSP in either the mains or in the subs. The DSP which is used to increase LF extension and other purposes also creates other effects like delays, pre-ringing, and group delay. All of these work against you if you are trying to integrate subs. So to me not having built in DSP is a positive.

I do have to respectfully disagree on "little or no purpose using a sub if a monitor already accurately reproduces sources above 40 Hz". Certainly not all but some music has a lot of content below 40 Hz and it can be fun to hear it. Also if you look at @amirm test the KH 310 start to distort pretty heavily below 50 Hz and I find crossing over to a sub to relieve them of this LF duty improves the upper bass / lower mid-range when playing loud as well. YMMV.

 

[Chr1]

The cynic in me says it is just a way of tying you into an expensive proprietary DSP solution. MA1 and the Neumann subs definitely seem overpriced to me.

 

[Somafunk]

There is little or no purpose using a sub if a monitor already accurately reproduces sources above 40 Hz. There is very little content below this.

Guess you don’t listen to electronic/techno music ?

 

[Chr1]

Reckon if I didn't use subs my speakers would be constantly going into protection. Or self destruct.
Hopefully the former.

Edit : Nah, doubtful.
The woofers would be struggling for sure tho

 

[Pearljam5000]

Why add subs and not go straight to KH420 instead?

 

[Chr1]

Cost basically.

I spent £850 on a couple of BK 12" XXLS400FF subs and it sounds great to me. So all in, less than half the cost of the KH420s.

 

[LTig]

Why add subs and not go straight to KH420 instead?

Because you can place the subs where they work best which always almost is not the place where the sats work best.

 

[smcc]

Cost basically.

I spent £850 on a couple of BK 12" XXLS400FF subs and it sounds great to me. So all in, less than half the cost of the KH420s.

I was actually thinking of buying those subs at one point...have you taken any measurements of them by any chance? THD would be of interest...

 

[boxerfan88]

The KH 310's do not use DSP. So why does DSP have anything to do with integrating them with subs?

The KH310 is used as pure analog active speakers.

DSP ( main-sub crossover, delays for time alignment, room correction, phase correction, etc.. etc.. ) is done outside the KH310, for example on a PC/DAW -or- device such as miniDSP / Trinnov.

.

 

[Chr1]

I was actually thinking of buying those subs at one point...have you taken any measurements of them by any chance? THD would be of interest...

No measurements myself. I bought them due to good reviews. Very few measurements available for subs generally unfortunately. I can certainly vouch for them however. Seem to be pretty decent. Best bass and general sound quality I've had personally..

 

[DS23MAN]

We do not know what the new 310's will be like. We have to wait and see. Speculation is just that - speculation.

This is a speaker targeted at Broadcast. It fits the bill, no need to change the design, the main market wants a reliable speaker without dsp goodies.

 

[Honken]

Because you can place the subs where they work best which always almost is not the place where the sats work best.

That said, the 750 looks great under the 310.

I've mentioned it before, but the only thing I want from an updated 310 is more modern amplification. I would like it if my speakers stopped pretending to be space heaters, but I don't think I'd hear any audible differences if the amps were "improved" otherwise.