Neumann KH 310A Review (Powered Monitor)

[Honken]

I too prefer the look of these and some other plain looking pro audio monitors over typical hi-fi speakers. The "Most beautiful speakers in the world"-thread here often makes me whince, but the understated and simple look of my Neumann speakers I don't mind at all. I would not mind a version in white however.

@setzer, have you tried a simple EQ boost in the range that you feel is lacking? It'd only take one IIR peaking filter, and if you are using these speakers for music production chances are that you have them connected to a computer capable of applying some form of EQ.

 

[setzer]

I too prefer the look of these and some other plain looking pro audio monitors over typical hi-fi speakers. The "Most beautiful speakers in the world"-thread here often makes me whince, but the understated and simple look of my Neumann speakers I don't mind at all. I would not mind a version in white however.

@setzer, have you tried a simple EQ boost in the range that you feel is lacking? It'd only take one IIR peaking filter, and if you are using these speakers for music production chances are that you have them connected to a computer capable of applying some form of EQ.

Yeah definitely, for now I've just been adding about 1.5db of boost in that range using RME's total mix software, which pretty efficiently applies it across the entire output in a discrete "set it and forget it" sort of way. I've been trying different ranges, at first I thought it was over 3khz, but now it seems like its right around 2khz or 2.2khz on the dot for the most seamless and natural boost. I might just leave it like this for now until I re-arrange my room and get some serious treatment to retest. For now, with that added boost, it sounds close to perfection to me so...... I guess I should just accept that for now and be pumped about that. All good! I plan on keeping these either way.

Even just from a casual listening point of view, running them flat, I like that I can crank them fairly loud without feeling like I'm going deaf because the area that is generally "piercing" is a bit subdued. Its quite a pleasant listen!

 

[Jaxjax]

Hello, first post here. I just got a Pair of KH-310 A's after my old monitors died (Adam A7's), which I had for almost 20 years. I bought these second hand but from an owner who had them for under a year and kept them in absolutely perfect shape. My other monitoring tool is Sennheiser HD-600's which I greatly love, but have been considering getting the HD-650's.

I just want to report my findings with these. So far love them, bass is excellent. I always prefer sealed and will take the SPL hit for tighter accuracy everytime. Lows, lower mids, mids, treble, air, all seem great to me. I REALLY prefer a neutral sounding speaker, I don't like anything too hyped, which might sound ironic coming from adam's tweeters, but generally I like flat and neutral. I also have a pair of Energy RC-70's in my basement if anyone knows those speakers ? pretty neutral as well and I quite like them.

Anyways my actual question: I just can't help but feel like these is a bit of a dip in the 3.5k region on these. Am I crazy to think this ? I haven't got a sub or used any room correction yet, just lowed some general bass eq on the monitors as suggested in the documentation. But after a lot of testing and getting my ears adjusted, I have this feeling like something is missing or dipped in the upper mids, I did some gentle EQ work and found the dip I'm noticing is somewhere around 2.8-3.8k range roughly, just a a general wide gentle 3 db boost really seemed to balance it out . After looking at the review here it does look right around where the mid range drive rolls off.

Couple questions: am I crazy ? does anyone else feel anything similar at all ? I saw someone on gearspace say he thought the KH80's MK2 DSP actually had a better upper mids than the 310's because of the different crossover design in the dsp version ? is this something that might get changed in the 310 MK2's ? Maybe I bought these at a bad time ?
I seriously love them in everyway except something just feels a bit off in the upper mids.

Can you try Dirac live 3.? I think it's free trial. You can then try that & pick a few filters for monitoring & actual listening enjoyment.

 

[Honken]

Its quite a pleasant listen!

Indeed it is. If you have access to EQ like that, perhaps compare your EQ with EQs based on Amir's measurements such as this as it shouldn't take long:

Neumann KH 310A Review (Powered Monitor)

Genelec also uses cheap Peerless stuff in their monitors. 100€ is actually a good spending, consider that this $30 woofer is more or less what's used in the 8030C and KH120A: https://www.parts-express.com/peerless-by-tymphany-830860-5-1-4-ppb-cone-hds-woofer--264-1080...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Or this:

Measurements for speaker Neumann KH 310A

www.spinorama.org

I'd ignore the filters for the bass.

 

[setzer]

Can you try Dirac live 3.? I think it's free trial. You can then try that & pick a few filters for monitoring & actual listening enjoyment.

I've heard of it but never used it. Only thing I've used is REW and a UMIK-1 for analysis. I've actually never applied any room correction to loudspeakers/monitors.

My concern is how do these hold up against Neumann's own MA 1 ? I don't really want to buy their subwoofer and measurement microphone, but I feel like if I want the best results thats the way. Do you think Direc live comes up short to MA 1 or is it pretty comparable ?

 

[Jaxjax]

At 4'3 away I would just try a corrected filter with the default target curve & screen it off below schroeder like 200-250 to try. You already have the mic . I just checked & its a 14 day trial they offer & says $349. for the license if ya want to keep it.I have no idea about MA-1.

 

[boxerfan88]

Hey, I appreciate the suggestion and I'll try what you said. I'm a little confused though, I understand the horizontal and vertical axis of these monitors, I also understand the axis starts between the mid dome and tweeter. But when you say: move it 1 meter from the left speaker. Do you mean off axis in a horizontal way ? like say move the mic in a circular horizontal way further left, so its aligned vertically still but completely out of position horizontally from the speaker, and test ? Or do you mean further or closer to the speaker in the same alignment ? You are intentionally going away from the beam of the mids/tweeter, yeah ? I would assume the mids and highs would drastically reduce in your suggestion ? unless I'm misunderstanding you...

The experiment I was suggesting was to leave the speakers where they are when you took your original measurement.
Now move the microphone to about 1M from the speaker and pointed on-axis at the acoustic axis (in between the middome & tweeter per the manual).

Take the measurement there and compare with your original to see if the dip remains, or shifts, or goes away.
We want on-axis measurement to compare.
From the spinorama chart, on-axis is pretty much flat, but off-axis isn't that flat.
It's a quick/simple way to deduce if the dip is coming from the speaker or caused by the room.

Why 1M? Because many/most midfield/farfield speaker designer use that distance as the driver integration point. Secondly, many/most manufacturer anechoic measurement is done at 1M. Finally, at 1M we would measure more direct sound vs. reflected sound compared to MLP (which is usually further away).

.

 

[teashea]

There was never an analog 4" Neumann monitor. The KH 120 II is not a version of the KH 120, but is more like a 5" variant of the KH 150. You should not compare them directly. And if we talk about pricing, the price difference between the KH 120 and the KH 120 II cannot be considered a "jump", especially when the latter is so technically different. You get a much better package for the price difference with the KH 120 II with better FR, phase correction, room EQ, lower hiss, higher SPL, digital inputs, more power output and higher power efficiency.

Well stated

 

[Ron78]

Hello, I have a couple of cotton curtains hanging on the inside of my KH310A on the left and right sides to cover my OLED when not in use. I was wondering whether these curtains on the sides could have a negative effect on the sound? :shock: I have also attached a photo to give you a better idea.

And another question with the Neumann 310A is always whether the tweeter/midrange unit should face inwards or outwards!Keyword comb filter effect?

My 310s are about 100cm away from the side wall on the left, if I take the centre of the tweeter and midrange unit, and about 40cm away to the rear. To the right of the 310s it is 95cm to the side and 40cm to the rear in the centre of the tweeter and mid-range unit. The height of both is 97cm in the centre of the tweeter and mid-range unit with a ceiling height of 234cm and an unfavourable length/width of 395cm x 382cm.

 

[boxerfan88]

Hello, I have a couple of cotton curtains hanging on the inside of my KH310A on the left and right sides to cover my OLED when not in use. I was wondering whether these curtains on the sides could have a negative effect on the sound? :shock: I have also attached a photo to give you a better idea.

Unlikely. The curtains look quite thin to be able to affect the sound by too much. Finally the KH310 tweeter is waveguided and from the photo, it does not look like much HF energy would reach the curtain.

And another question with the Neumann 310A is always whether the tweeter/midrange unit should face inwards or outwards!Keyword comb filter effect?

Neumann says it can be used either way, outwards or inwards. Neumann recommendation is outwards.

My 310s are about 100cm away from the side wall on the left, if I take the centre of the tweeter and midrange unit, and about 40cm away to the rear. To the right of the 310s it is 95cm to the side and 40cm to the rear in the centre of the tweeter and mid-range unit. The height of both is 97cm in the centre of the tweeter and mid-range unit with a ceiling height of 234cm and an unfavourable length/width of 395cm x 382cm.

Your placement is quite similar to mine -- 90cm to the side-wall, almost up against the front-wall.
=> watch that upper-bass/lower-mid bump
=> I took mine down via EQ -3dB Q=1.414 Fc=400Hz

Your room is quite similar to mine -- squarish. Mine is 4m x 4m x 3m.
=> You will have a gigantic peak in the 40-50Hz region (mine is +20dB @ 44Hz).
=> I took mine down via EQ.

I also toe-in my KH310 such that the triangle apex is about 1 foot behind the head position.
( I use a laser alignment tool placed at the acoustic center vertical position to align. The acoustic center can be found in the Neumann manual. Or post 1047 )

Hope the above suggestion helps ...

.

 

[teashea]

Hello, I have a couple of cotton curtains hanging on the inside of my KH310A on the left and right sides to cover my OLED when not in use. I was wondering whether these curtains on the sides could have a negative effect on the sound? :shock: I have also attached a photo to give you a better idea.

And another question with the Neumann 310A is always whether the tweeter/midrange unit should face inwards or outwards!Keyword comb filter effect?

My 310s are about 100cm away from the side wall on the left, if I take the centre of the tweeter and midrange unit, and about 40cm away to the rear. To the right of the 310s it is 95cm to the side and 40cm to the rear in the centre of the tweeter and mid-range unit. The height of both is 97cm in the centre of the tweeter and mid-range unit with a ceiling height of 234cm and an unfavourable length/width of 395cm x 382cm.

Tweeter on the outside. Thin cotton is insignificant. Too close to side wall.

 

[markstein]

I would not call 100cm too close to the sidewall...

 

[Ron78]

Unlikely. The curtains look quite thin to be able to affect the sound by too much. Finally the KH310 tweeter is waveguided and from the photo, it does not look like much HF energy would reach the curtain.




Neumann says it can be used either way, outwards or inwards. Neumann recommendation is outwards.



Your placement is quite similar to mine -- 90cm to the side-wall, almost up against the front-wall.
=> watch that upper-bass/lower-mid bump
=> I took mine down via EQ -3dB Q=1.414 Fc=400Hz

Your room is quite similar to mine -- squarish. Mine is 4m x 4m x 3m.
=> You will have a gigantic peak in the 40-50Hz region (mine is +20dB @ 44Hz).
=> I took mine down via EQ.

I also toe-in my KH310 such that the triangle apex is about 1 foot behind the head position.
( I use a laser alignment tool placed at the acoustic center vertical position to align. The acoustic center can be found in the Neumann manual. Or post 1047 )

Hope the above suggestion helps ...

.

very interesting, many thx @ll, my thoughts about the KH310 are, I have at least 1 KH750DSP but I think I need a 2nd KH750DSP to calibrate 2 KH310 and if I then think about the 3rd KH310A as a centre and calibrate it again with the 3rd required KH750DSP, puuuuuuh

 

[teashea]

very interesting, many thx @ll, my thoughts about the KH310 are, I have at least 1 KH750DSP but I think I need a 2nd KH750DSP to calibrate 2 KH310 and if I then think about the 3rd KH310A as a centre and calibrate it again with the 3rd required KH750DSP, puuuuuuh

I have a KH750 for use with my KH310's but ---- it is not hooked up at the present. The reason is that none of the music I produce has any content below 40 Hz. Indeed, with very few exceptions very little music produced has any content in that lowest octave. There is some pipe organ music, a little EDM etc with some content down there. Very little, however.

Producers understand that maybe one a thousand music listeners have a system that can reproduce sounds below 40 Hz. Plus, very few instruments play that low - a couple keys on the piano (which are seldom used, pipe organ). There is simply nothing down there of significance for me.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

very interesting, many thx @ll, my thoughts about the KH310 are, I have at least 1 KH750DSP but I think I need a 2nd KH750DSP to calibrate 2 KH310 and if I then think about the 3rd KH310A as a centre and calibrate it again with the 3rd required KH750DSP, puuuuuuh

In a stereo system, 1 KH750 can control and calibrate both KH310.
In a multichannel system, you need 1 KH750 per KH310. So 3 for LCR, but thise three together will also reproduce the .1 LFE channel, not only LCR. For this to work with MA1, you also need surround speakers, for example KH80. Just 3.1 is not supported.

 

[Ron78]

In a stereo system, 1 KH750 can control and calibrate both KH310.
In a multichannel system, you need 1 KH750 per KH310. So 3 for LCR, but thise three together will also reproduce the .1 LFE channel, not only LCR. For this to work with MA1, you also need surround speakers, for example KH80. Just 3.1 is not supported.

yes, I have 3 x KH80DSP here, bought another one and the surrounds would be complete. And yes, it's really bad when you have to have 3x KH750DSP to measure the 3x KH310A, plus the cabling in the multi-channel configuration and can 3x KH750DSP be positioned sensibly in the front to iron out the standing waves etc. etc. The best thing would be if Neumann simply brought out a KH310A II DSP, but that will probably never happen.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

yes, I have 3 x KH80DSP here, bought another one and the surrounds would be complete. And yes, it's really bad when you have to have 3x KH750DSP to measure the 3x KH310A, plus the cabling in the multi-channel configuration and can 3x KH750DSP be positioned sensibly in the front to iron out the standing waves etc. etc. The best thing would be if Neumann simply brought out a KH310A II DSP, but that will probably never happen.

No, it is not bad. It is great they found a solution to integrate analog monitors in a multichannel DSP system.
But yes, it will be more comfortable when (not if) the 310 II and other new DSP speakers come out. Can't be very long.

 

[unpluggged]

KH310A II DSP, but that will probably never happen.

Of course it won't ever happen: the "A" letter in the "KH 310 A L G" model code stands for "analog input only" (as opposed to the KH 310 D variant with a built-in DAC — which seems to be discontinued already). Neumann's DSP monitors are not "A" models in that sense.

Now speaking of the KH 310's DSP successor, compact three-way monitors is an important segment, so I'm pretty sure we will see a new model from Neumann here, be it called KH 310 II, KH 320, or something else, and be it a sealed or ported design this time.

 

[Drew456]

so I'm pretty sure we will see a new model from Neumann

I think some of us will be walking around with zimmer frames by then

 

[teashea]

yes, I have 3 x KH80DSP here, bought another one and the surrounds would be complete. And yes, it's really bad when you have to have 3x KH750DSP to measure the 3x KH310A, plus the cabling in the multi-channel configuration and can 3x KH750DSP be positioned sensibly in the front to iron out the standing waves etc. etc. The best thing would be if Neumann simply brought out a KH310A II DSP, but that will probably never happen.

I think it is very likely that the next monitor that Neuman introduces will be a KH310 II, which will have DSP. I think that their big problem is designing a monitor that is significantly better than the KH150. That is a tough assignment.